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13:30:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/26-i18nits-irc
13:30:45 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS working group
13:30:49 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
13:30:51 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
13:30:54 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
13:42:43 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0094.html
13:57:35 <YvesS> YvesS has joined #i18nits
14:00:29 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started
14:02:46 <YvesS> zakim, who is here?
14:03:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
14:03:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see YvesS, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki
14:03:27 <YvesS> zakim, who is here?
14:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
14:03:48 <r12a> r12a has joined #i18nits
14:03:54 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
14:04:07 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
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14:04:28 <AZ> AZ has joined #i18nits
14:05:31 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0097.html
14:05:36 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
14:05:51 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3499
14:05:59 <fsasaki> Yves: editorial issue, see no problem
14:06:22 <fsasaki> Richard: "as for" means "in contrast to"
14:06:35 <fsasaki> .. it should be "for global rules" or just "global rules"
14:06:51 <fsasaki> Andrzej: "as for" is completely redundant and confusing
14:08:22 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3500
14:08:38 <fsasaki> Yves: you don't want to have mixed directionality with language
14:08:59 <YvesS> quote[@direction='rtlText']
14:09:20 <fsasaki> Richard: the example should be changed
14:09:27 <fsasaki> .. the xpath expression could be different
14:09:43 <fsasaki> Yves: we need to redo the example
14:10:06 <fsasaki> action: Yves to redo example for http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3500
14:10:19 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3501
14:10:41 <fsasaki> Yves: you were asking for some hebrew text
14:10:53 <Zakim> zakim-bot will restart in 1 minute to reset participant state.  save your agendas quickly
14:11:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:12:05 <fsasaki> Yves: should we have a Hebrew quotation?
14:12:07 <fsasaki> Richard: yes
14:12:32 <fsasaki> .. we say that we apply an dir attribute to a specific piece of text
14:13:24 <fsasaki> .. I use examples like "the title is 'W3C'"
14:13:33 <fsasaki> .. that is more complicated than that you have here
14:13:52 <fsasaki> .. but it is the what we need
14:14:00 <fsasaki> Yves: also related to http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502
14:14:07 <fsasaki> .. we should redo the example
14:14:14 <fsasaki> Felix: fine by me
14:14:30 <fsasaki> action: Yves to redo the example for http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3501 and http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502
14:14:36 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3503
14:15:00 <fsasaki> Richard: it suggests that you refer to the articles
14:15:16 <fsasaki> Yves: the editors to look how to fit that in
14:17:00 <fsasaki> action: editors to add a reference as proposed by http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3503
14:17:19 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3504
14:18:12 <fsasaki> Richard: you would always want to use the rp element
14:18:16 <fsasaki> Felix: fine with me
14:18:48 <fsasaki> action: editors to implement http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3505
14:19:00 <fsasaki> s/05/04/
14:19:06 <fsasaki> topic: topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3505
14:19:18 <fsasaki> Yves: fine by me
14:19:28 <RalphS> RalphS has joined #i18nits
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14:19:39 <RalphS> zakim, this is _ts
14:19:39 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; that matches I18N_TS()10:00AM
14:19:43 <RalphS> zakim, who's on the call?
14:19:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see +44.560.072.aaaa, Felix, Yves_Savourel, +49.622.776.aabb, Richard
14:19:50 <RalphS> RalphS has left #i18nits
14:20:07 <fsasaki> action: Felix to create a Japanese example for http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3505
14:20:10 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3506
14:20:14 <Zakim> - +44.560.072.aaaa
14:21:23 <fsasaki> Yves: fine by me
14:21:34 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3507
14:22:14 <AZ> My connection dropped
14:23:57 <fsasaki> Yves: everbody o.k. with that
14:23:59 <Zakim> + +44.149.453.aaaa
14:24:04 <Zakim> - +44.149.453.aaaa
14:24:04 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3508
14:24:05 <Zakim> + +44.149.453.aaaa
14:24:24 <fsasaki> Yves: example 32
14:24:53 <fsasaki> Richard: should its:rules be in the head?
14:25:00 <fsasaki> Yves: not necessarily, but it might be
14:25:10 <fsasaki> .. but that proposal is fine
14:25:16 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3509
14:27:33 <fsasaki> Richard describes the issues, Andrzej agrees
14:30:40 <fsasaki> Felix: agree with having 6.1 in the sub sections of 6
14:30:58 <fsasaki> .. but 5.1 is generated automatically from the subsection in 6
14:32:56 <fsasaki> .. we could have the appropriate descriptions after the productions in the subsections
14:33:31 <fsasaki> .. and get rid of sec. 5.1?
14:33:39 <fsasaki> Richard: you could have 5.1 as an appendix
14:35:11 <fsasaki> Felix: with links from the appendix to the data category sub section
14:35:25 <fsasaki> .. for the reading purpose which Richard described
14:36:13 <fsasaki> Richard: If you do one small section and show me how that would be
14:36:17 <fsasaki> Felix: o.k.
14:37:10 <fsasaki> action: felix to implement http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3509 as an example
14:38:26 <fsasaki> Richard: should we have the table in 6.1 in the appendix?
14:38:29 <fsasaki> .. just a question
14:39:35 <fsasaki> Felix: it's fine to have both, in the appendix and in the text
14:40:04 <fsasaki> Richard: we don't need an appendix if we have 6.1 also
14:40:58 <fsasaki> Yves: an appendix would be redundant 
14:41:16 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3510
14:41:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:41:37 <fsasaki> present: Andrzej, Christian, Felix, Richard, Yves
14:41:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:42:26 <fsasaki> Richard describes the issue
14:43:06 <fsasaki> Richard: it's about 5.3.1
14:45:54 <fsasaki> Felix: would having the list of pointer attributes be o.k.?
14:46:04 <fsasaki> Richard: that was my initial thought
14:47:26 <fsasaki> Christian: we could say in the basic concepts section s.t. about our naming convention
14:48:33 <fsasaki> .. in addition to 5.3.1
14:48:47 <fsasaki> Yves: we need to enumerate things in 5.3.1
14:49:35 <fsasaki> .. Christian proposes s.t. for the basic concepts section about "pointer" attributes and also "ref" attributes
14:49:41 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3511
14:49:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
14:51:17 <fsasaki> action: Yves to implement http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3511
14:51:30 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3512
14:52:03 <fsasaki> Yves: I'll take that into account then I redo the example
14:52:40 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3513
14:55:12 <fsasaki> Felix: this needs just a clarification, right?
14:55:14 <fsasaki> Richard: yes
14:55:23 <fsasaki> .. drop the sentence or add more clarification
14:55:34 <fsasaki> s/sentence/description/
14:57:11 <fsasaki> Felix: we need to clarify that you can have external rules without an its:rules element in the target document
14:57:23 <fsasaki> Yves: so replace the current text with a paragraph about that?
14:57:28 <fsasaki> Felix: fine by me
14:57:53 <fsasaki> action: yves to write a paragraph about associating external rules with files for bug http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3513
14:57:57 <fsasaki> topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3514
14:59:13 <fsasaki> Yves and Richard go through the bug
14:59:57 <fsasaki> Richard: the local attributes are not in the list
15:00:08 <fsasaki> Felix: maybe this: "Attributes inherited from [att.translate att.locInfo att.term att.dir]"
15:00:43 <fsasaki> Richard: no, you can also use attributes with other elements
15:00:48 <Zakim> - +44.149.453.aaaa
15:00:54 <fsasaki> s/use/use the/
15:01:27 <fsasaki> .. so we need to have another list for local attributes
15:01:35 <AZ> AZ has joined #i18nits
15:01:38 <AZ> I had to go
15:02:06 <fsasaki> yves: will we have the local attributes in the appendix
15:02:10 <fsasaki> Richard: would be good
15:02:15 <fsasaki> felix: agree
15:02:39 <fsasaki> topic: xml lang case
15:04:24 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&product=ITS
15:05:10 <YvesS> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/21-i18nits-minutes.html#action03
15:05:37 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
15:05:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Felix, Yves_Savourel, +49.622.776.aabb, Richard
15:05:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see AZ, Zakim, r12a, YvesS, RRSAgent, fsasaki
15:06:04 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0121.html
15:06:25 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0162.html
15:07:17 <fsasaki> Yves: we don't mention xml:lang anywhere , and we wanted to fix that
15:08:38 <Zakim> - +49.622.776.aabb
15:09:58 <fsasaki> Richard: where should it be?
15:10:47 <fsasaki> Felix: I have no preference
15:10:52 <fsasaki> Yves: I am fine with Felix proposal
15:11:18 <fsasaki> .. and would make the changes I proposed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0162.html
15:12:41 <fsasaki> Yves: should some information from Felix mail in the language information section?
15:13:18 <fsasaki> Richard: could be
15:15:29 <fsasaki> discussion whether langRule MUST NOT be used for pointing to xml:lang
15:16:03 <fsasaki> Yves: it does not hurt if you point to xml:lang with a langRule element
15:16:59 <fsasaki> .. should we have to test s.t. for xml:lang?
15:22:30 <fsasaki> discussion on whether xml:lang has to be recognized by ITS processing or not
15:23:32 <fsasaki> Yves: all agree that the paragraph that felix wrote should be in the draft
15:25:03 <fsasaki> .. we have to see whether there are any normative, testable parts of that
15:26:05 <Zakim> -Felix
15:26:07 <Zakim> -Richard
15:26:08 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
15:26:10 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended
15:26:11 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.560.072.aaaa, Felix, Yves_Savourel, +49.622.776.aabb, Richard, +44.149.453.aaaa
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15:26:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/26-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:27:26 <YvesS> Felix: Thanks for the bug summary in HTML it's nice. it'll be very helpful when you make it public.
15:28:26 <fsasaki> o.k.
15:28:43 <fsasaki> Do you want to write a mail about it? It's maybe better if it comes from you, as the chair ;)
15:30:13 <fsasaki> Unfortunatley I have another call for two hours now and then s.t. else to do, so I cannot update bugzilla now or send the minutes, I'll do that tomorrow
15:33:28 <YvesS> no problem. I can send the email about the bug report, but it would be nice for you to present your work :) Let me know: I'll do what you prefer
15:34:16 <fsasaki> no, you are the chair, I do what you prefer ;) ,  but you can say I did it, but that's maybe enough ;)
15:38:52 <YvesS> OK. Then let me know when you think it's ready for the public and I'll post an email. Cheers. Have a good night.
15:39:28 <fsasaki> oh, you can post the mail already, sorry for not making that clear. But maybe say that it is work in progress :) Thanks and cheers
15:46:45 <YvesS> ok. bye.
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