IRC log of i18nits on 2006-07-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:52:42 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18nits
- 13:52:42 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-irc
- 13:53:19 [fsasaki]
- Hi Yves, sorry, I will be late today, our son just had a small accident, nothing serious, but it will take some time
- 13:53:33 [YvesS]
- Hi felix.
- 13:53:42 [YvesS]
- Sure: take your time.
- 13:56:04 [YvesS]
- zakim, this will be I18N_ITS
- 13:56:04 [Zakim]
- ok, YvesS; I see I18N_ITS()10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
- 14:01:03 [Zakim]
- I18N_ITS()10:00AM has now started
- 14:01:03 [Zakim]
- +Felix
- 14:01:21 [chriLi]
- chriLi has joined #i18nits
- 14:01:30 [Zakim]
- I18N_ITS()10:00AM has ended
- 14:01:34 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Felix
- 14:01:56 [Zakim]
- I18N_ITS()10:00AM has now started
- 14:02:02 [Zakim]
- +Yves_Savourel
- 14:02:19 [YvesS]
- zakim, this is I18N_ITS
- 14:02:19 [Zakim]
- YvesS, this was already I18N_ITS()10:00AM
- 14:02:20 [Zakim]
- ok, YvesS; that matches I18N_ITS()10:00AM
- 14:02:57 [YvesS]
- :(
- 14:03:39 [YvesS]
- zakim, who is there?
- 14:03:39 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, YvesS.
- 14:03:44 [YvesS]
- zakim, who is here?
- 14:03:44 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Yves_Savourel
- 14:03:46 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see chriLi, RRSAgent, YvesS, Zakim, fsasaki
- 14:03:54 [Zakim]
- +Felix
- 14:03:58 [YvesS]
- zakim, who is here?
- 14:04:10 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Felix (muted)
- 14:04:25 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see chriLi, RRSAgent, YvesS, Zakim, fsasaki
- 14:04:34 [chriLi]
- I cannot connect via phone
- 14:05:12 [YvesS]
- the code is 48794
- 14:05:24 [r12a]
- r12a has joined #i18nits
- 14:05:35 [r12a]
- zakim, dial richard
- 14:05:41 [Zakim]
- ok, r12a; the call is being made
- 14:05:43 [Zakim]
- +Richard
- 14:05:45 [Zakim]
- +??P9
- 14:07:31 [Zakim]
- -Richard
- 14:08:08 [fsasaki]
- topic: current comments
- 14:08:11 [fsasaki]
- list at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0101.html
- 14:08:59 [fsasaki]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126
- 14:09:24 [fsasaki]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126#c1
- 14:09:38 [fsasaki]
- proposal for a solution at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126#c1
- 14:09:58 [fsasaki]
- s/current comments/comment on "Attaching information to the object associated"/
- 14:10:56 [fsasaki]
- Yves describes the proposal from Felix
- 14:11:07 [fsasaki]
- Yves: how do you make the distinction at b)?
- 14:11:58 [fsasaki]
- Felix: you would need additional information
- 14:12:06 [fsasaki]
- .. e.g. an attribute as a "trigger"
- 14:12:11 [YvesS]
- <img its:translate="yes" its:translateObject="yes" src="myimg.png" alt="My image"/>
- 14:13:05 [fsasaki]
- Felix: we still would not be able to identify the src attribute
- 14:13:21 [fsasaki]
- Yves: I can see the trigger at the global level
- 14:13:30 [fsasaki]
- .. but locally, you may have to define things for both cases
- 14:13:40 [fsasaki]
- .. i.e. the content and the object
- 14:14:12 [fsasaki]
- Christian: I see the problem for the local case
- 14:14:31 [fsasaki]
- Yves: would the trigger answer your concern, that we don't have anything for an object?
- 14:14:48 [fsasaki]
- Christian repeats the requirement
- 14:16:11 [fsasaki]
- Felix: should we make an substantive change now?
- 14:16:26 [fsasaki]
- Christian: we should not address this now, if it takes an substantive change
- 14:17:03 [fsasaki]
- Yves: we should kit the proposal that Felix made and discuss for the next version of ITS
- 14:17:16 [fsasaki]
- Christian: I already came up with many cases
- 14:17:29 [fsasaki]
- Yves: so let's pospone that for this version of ITS
- 14:18:57 [fsasaki]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290
- 14:19:06 [YvesS]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0068.html
- 14:19:46 [fsasaki]
- Yves: why my name in it?
- 14:19:55 [fsasaki]
- Christian: I got the text from one article of you??
- 14:20:02 [fsasaki]
- Yves: it's o.k. without citing me
- 14:20:21 [fsasaki]
- Yves: wording looks good to me
- 14:20:23 [fsasaki]
- Felix: +1
- 14:20:33 [fsasaki]
- Yves: let's have this as the official answer
- 14:21:28 [fsasaki]
- action: Felix to go back to Karl with our resolution on http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290
- 14:21:43 [fsasaki]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3292
- 14:22:09 [fsasaki]
- Yves: we discussed that already a bit
- 14:22:37 [fsasaki]
- related bug at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3331
- 14:23:09 [fsasaki]
- Felix: I wrote a personal reply to the HTML WG, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0061.html
- 14:24:35 [fsasaki]
- action: Felix to get back to the HTML WG to schedule call / discussion of XHTML Mod bug
- 14:26:44 [fsasaki]
- Felix: would you agree with my reply? Could I sent it as a WG reply?
- 14:27:00 [fsasaki]
- Christian: We have a misunderstanding with respect to "modularization"
- 14:27:09 [fsasaki]
- .. XHTML modularization is an established term
- 14:27:21 [fsasaki]
- .. the way we use "modularization" does not fit with our use
- 14:28:21 [fsasaki]
- Yves: the term "modularization" is not in the ITS draft anymore, only in the BP document
- 14:28:49 [fsasaki]
- Christian: for e.g. DITA and DocBook, what do we want to provide?
- 14:30:46 [fsasaki]
- Yves: we just have BP how to use ITS, we have nothing people *have* to use?
- 14:32:38 [fsasaki]
- Felix: is a key difference that ITS is very free in combining markup declarations
- 14:34:40 [fsasaki]
- .. if you look at the conformance section http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#conformance-product-schema : you have a lot of combinations of markup declarations, too many for normative modules
- 14:35:01 [fsasaki]
- Christian: somebody who uses ITS has to say what is applicable in her context
- 14:35:32 [fsasaki]
- .. as for XHTML, we have to see what is necessary in that given context
- 14:37:01 [fsasaki]
- .. so, an XHTML module will not need ruby and dir, because it understands it natively
- 14:37:24 [fsasaki]
- Christian: could we put this in the next charter?
- 14:37:37 [fsasaki]
- Yves: not sure, it bothers me that this should be normative
- 14:38:50 [fsasaki]
- Felix: I think the HTML WG wants us to use the XHTML Modularization framework for the whole ITS spec
- 14:40:05 [fsasaki]
- Yves: is the comment only about XHTML or ITS as a whole?
- 14:40:12 [fsasaki]
- See their proposal:
- 14:40:13 [fsasaki]
- > Modularisation allows you to add markup modules to a language so that
- 14:40:13 [fsasaki]
- > you build a language using building bricks rather than defining elements
- 14:40:13 [fsasaki]
- > and attributes separately. This helps consistency between related
- 14:40:13 [fsasaki]
- > families of markup languages. We think that defining an ITS module would
- 14:40:13 [fsasaki]
- > be a good way to help people get ITS into their markup languages.
- 14:40:15 [fsasaki]
- > Modularization is schema-language neutral. Once you have defined a
- 14:40:17 [fsasaki]
- > module, you can 'implement' it in any number of schema languages, such
- 14:40:19 [fsasaki]
- > as DTD, XML Schema or Relax. We're not sure what you mean by
- 14:40:21 [fsasaki]
- > 'proprietary' here.
- 14:41:17 [chriLi]
- I'll be back in a minute
- 14:42:24 [fsasaki]
- Felix: that sounds to me that they want to have XHTML modularization normatively
- 14:42:26 [r12a]
- zakim, dial richard
- 14:42:26 [Zakim]
- ok, r12a; the call is being made
- 14:42:28 [Zakim]
- +Richard
- 14:43:45 [fsasaki]
- action: The whole WG to look at the XHTML modularization comment and Felix reply proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0061.html
- 14:43:58 [YvesS]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492
- 14:44:32 [YvesS]
- <Res>
- 14:44:32 [YvesS]
- - <prolog>
- 14:44:32 [YvesS]
- - <its:rules xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" its:version="1.0">
- 14:44:32 [YvesS]
- <its:translateRule selector="//msg/notes" translate="no" />
- 14:44:32 [YvesS]
- <its:locNoteRule locInfoType="description" selector="//msg/data" locNotePointer="../notes" />
- 14:44:33 [YvesS]
- </its:rules>
- 14:44:35 [YvesS]
- </prolog>
- 14:44:37 [YvesS]
- - <body>
- 14:44:39 [YvesS]
- - <msg id="FileNotFound">
- 14:44:41 [YvesS]
- <notes>Indicates that the resource file {0} could not be loaded.</notes>
- 14:44:43 [YvesS]
- <data>Cannot find the file {0}.</data>
- 14:44:45 [YvesS]
- </msg>
- 14:44:47 [YvesS]
- - <msg id="DivByZero">
- 14:44:49 [YvesS]
- <notes>A division by 0 was going to be computed.</notes>
- 14:44:51 [YvesS]
- <data>Invalid parameter.</data>
- 14:44:53 [YvesS]
- </msg>
- 14:44:55 [YvesS]
- </body>
- 14:44:57 [YvesS]
- </Res>
- 14:45:59 [fsasaki]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492
- 14:46:13 [fsasaki]
- Yves: the change is fine with me
- 14:47:20 [fsasaki]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494
- 14:47:49 [fsasaki]
- Yves: I agree with the comment
- 14:48:03 [fsasaki]
- .. how to make it clearer?
- 14:48:17 [fsasaki]
- .. maybe with the definitions?
- 14:48:31 [YvesS]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494
- 14:50:11 [fsasaki]
- Richard: it does not say that you should point to an URI
- 14:51:05 [fsasaki]
- Christian: we have several attributes which could be called "xxxURI" instead of "xxxRef"
- 14:51:24 [fsasaki]
- .. e.g we would have "xxxUriPointer"
- 14:52:23 [fsasaki]
- Felix: is renaming necessary?
- 14:52:42 [fsasaki]
- Richard: having a sentence which says "the attribute must contain an URI" would be good
- 14:52:50 [fsasaki]
- .. that's what I thought
- 14:53:14 [r12a]
- correction: The location pointed to by termInfoRefPointer must contain a URI.
- 14:53:42 [fsasaki]
- Yves: being able to fix that with a sentence would be good
- 14:55:29 [fsasaki]
- .. having an extra paragraph talking about the generality of ref, and saying that these are URIs, might be good
- 14:57:22 [fsasaki]
- Felix: I would be worried about the must
- 14:57:30 [fsasaki]
- Richard: it is a lower case must
- 14:57:34 [fsasaki]
- Felix: oh, I see
- 14:58:38 [fsasaki]
- Richard: how about changing "termInfoRefPointer" to "termInfoPointerRef"?
- 14:59:37 [fsasaki]
- Discussion of the role of the attribute
- 15:02:28 [fsasaki]
- action: Felix to make a better explanation of the data type of the "termInfoRef" attribute
- 15:03:10 [fsasaki]
- action: Yves to check where we have to make changes for the the terminology "ref" to "URI"
- 15:03:30 [fsasaki]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495
- 15:04:05 [fsasaki]
- Yves: I made a proposal, you can see if it works better with you
- 15:04:24 [fsasaki]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
- 15:04:31 [fsasaki]
- "standardized wording"
- 15:04:36 [fsasaki]
- Richard: very editorial
- 15:04:47 [fsasaki]
- .. but every data category says the same think in a different way
- 15:04:54 [fsasaki]
- Yves: true
- 15:05:19 [fsasaki]
- .. it is also more difficult where the paragraphs for global and local is
- 15:05:47 [fsasaki]
- Felix: good idea
- 15:06:01 [fsasaki]
- Christian: agree
- 15:06:19 [fsasaki]
- action: editors to make the change described at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
- 15:06:35 [fsasaki]
- topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3497
- 15:06:52 [fsasaki]
- Yves: editorial
- 15:07:17 [fsasaki]
- Yves: agree
- 15:07:24 [fsasaki]
- action: editors to make the change for http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
- 15:07:59 [Zakim]
- -Felix
- 15:08:05 [Zakim]
- -Christian
- 15:09:22 [r12a]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498
- 15:09:26 [r12a]
- proposed action for felix: remove duplication
- 15:09:51 [Zakim]
- -Richard
- 15:09:53 [Zakim]
- -Yves_Savourel
- 15:09:54 [Zakim]
- I18N_ITS()10:00AM has ended
- 15:09:55 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Richard, Christian
- 15:10:17 [YvesS]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:10:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html YvesS
- 15:10:35 [fsasaki]
- Present: Christian, Felix, Richard, Yves
- 15:10:40 [fsasaki]
- meeting: i18n ITS working group
- 15:10:43 [fsasaki]
- chair: Yves
- 15:10:47 [fsasaki]
- scribe: Felix
- 15:10:51 [fsasaki]
- scribeNick: fsasaki
- 15:11:00 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
- 15:11:08 [YvesS]
- bye Felix, Thanks.
- 15:14:56 [r12a]
- r12a has left #i18nits
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