IRC log of i18ncore on 2006-06-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc

14:01:01 [fsasaki]

meeting: i18n core working group

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chair: Francois

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scribe: Felix

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scribeNick: fsasaki

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zakim, dial richard

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ok, r12a; the call is being made

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I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has now started

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+Richard

14:01:41 [fsasaki]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0011.html

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+Felix

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+[IBM]

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me rrsagent, make log public

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+[IPcaller]

14:03:19 [fyergeau_]

zakim, [ is fyergeau

14:03:19 [Zakim]

+fyergeau; got it

14:04:29 [fyergeau_]

zakim, who is here?

14:04:29 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Richard, Felix, Mary, fyergeau

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On IRC I see fyergeau_, fyergeau, r12a, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki

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topic: action items

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action: Felix to find out how we should handle ws-i18n "policy" now, with the policy wg (ONGOING)

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+Karunesh_Arora

14:06:57 [fsasaki]

action: Richard (if you want): Report on SSML workshop, and WWW 2006 (DONE)

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Richard: not much left to say

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Francois: nothing ground breaking?

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Richard: the composite message scenario for SSML?

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.. we thought about SSML in two contexts:

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.. handcrafting a text, putting things into it, then an SSML processor works with it

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.. that scenario is e.g. for a telephone prompt

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.. a different scenario might be a news read

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.. where you read news e.g. for a data base

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.. in that case you will not do any special tweaks of low level attributes / elements

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.. at the SSML workshop, there was a third scenario: you get some information from the DB

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.. e.g. you get the date from the DB in "the date is ..."

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.. or "the total number of pages printed is ..."

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.. if you say "we printed seven pages"

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.. that would be difficult for languages with high inflection

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.. all the rules on composite messages I wrote recently in an article apply in that case

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.. we have to see what the implemencations will be

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Francois: interesting. Is there an allowance for variables in SSML?

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Richard: that is up to you, SSML has no specific facility for that

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.. but some Greek people did that

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Francois: so the SSML processor gets just plain SSML, but a different processor does the rest?

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Richard: yes

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.. e.g. you could use the say-as element

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.. you can have that as part of a template for your sentence

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.. but that would not be so easy with e.g. news feeds, because you first would need to identify e.g. ordinal numbers

14:13:27 [fsasaki]

Francois: any conclusion for the workshop?

14:13:38 [fsasaki]

topic: SSML i18n workshop report (by Richard)

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Richard: we gathered requirements

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.. there will be a summary

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.. there might be another workshop

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.. these guys are kean on i18n

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.. they want more people more Indian e.g.

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Felix: would ITS be a place to describe such constraints as with the variable stuff?

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Richard: don't know, maybe in ITS

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topic: Workshop in India

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Richard: on the 2nd and 3rd of August

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.. a workshop with strong interest in speech

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.. maybe people from the voice browser wg

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.. Felix might be able to participate as well

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Felix: I will make that clear ASAP

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Francois: organized by the Indian office?

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Richard: yes

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topic: action items (part 2)

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action: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather feedback (PENDING)

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action: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod norm (PENDING)

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action: Mary to review http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after 18 May before 30 June (PENDING)

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action: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on ws-i18n (PENDING)

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action: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it (PENDING)

14:19:17 [fsasaki]

topic: discussion of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0009.html comments on intput mode

14:19:49 [fsasaki]

Richard: I already got a response from Martin, he felt he could deal with this

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.. I don't think there is s.t. specific at this time, Steven just wants somebody to talk to

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Martins mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0012.html

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Richard: there is a specific issue, and Martin has responded already

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action: Everybody to look at input mode discussion, see Martin's mail at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0012.html

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topic: compound doc issue

14:22:36 [fyergeau_]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0010.html

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Richard: accessibility people have raised the same issue as we did about compound documents

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Francois: We tried, CDF refused

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Felix: coming from an ITS perspective and the problems we have with the conref mechanism, I tend to agree with the CDF people

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Richard: people might want to use this stuff

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Francois: CDF people say the stuff would be like standalone

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.. I am still worried that people create compound documents with images

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Richard: we should get it in the i18n BP document

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Felix: Yves said he will take care of that

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Richard: we talk about documents included by reference

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.. if the SVG is included in the HTML file, what do we say?

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Francois: in that case, the xml:lang will apply

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.. from the case of accessibility, we could say "we tried with CDF, they pushed back"

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.. accessiblity might be stronger

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Richard: but the same theory applies

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.. if we agree with CDF, we should go back to accessibility like that as well

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.. and people should be educated

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.. to use language information in every included piece

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action: Richard to reply to accessibility people about CDF issue

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Richard: we should also say:

14:44:13 [r12a]

that the referenced document would be handled as if it were read on its own

14:44:50 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki

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topic: two possible approaches to LTLI

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see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006AprJun/0073.html

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Francois: Did Mark make some recommendations?

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Felix: he proposed to built locale identifiers on top of RFC 3066bis

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Francois: I think that matches current practice more closlely than the other solution (i.e. having locale and language totally separated)

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Richard: what are we dealing with here? E.g. collations?

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Francois: what a locale is depends very much on the application area

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Felix: what notion fits to ws i18n?

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Mary: depends also on application

14:54:00 [fsasaki]

discussion on various notions of locale

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topic: rechartering preparation - any news?

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Richard: no news yet.

14:56:46 [fsasaki]

topic: other business?

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Francois: not here next week

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Richard: let's have a call

14:57:52 [fsasaki]

.. at some time, we should go through some concepts of RFC 3066bis

14:58:00 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki

14:58:45 [Zakim]

-fyergeau

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-Felix

14:58:49 [Zakim]

-Mary

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-Richard

14:58:51 [fsasaki]

Francois: please tackle ITS if possible next week

14:58:59 [fsasaki]

Mary: will do

14:59:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki

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-Karunesh_Arora

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I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has ended

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Attendees were Richard, Felix, [IBM], Mary, [IPcaller], fyergeau, Karunesh_Arora

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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki

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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-minutes.html fsasaki

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rrsagent, bye

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I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-actions.rdf :

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ACTION: Felix to find out how we should handle ws-i18n "policy" now, with the policy wg (ONGOING) [1]

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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-06-03

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ACTION: Richard (if you want): Report on SSML workshop, and WWW 2006 (DONE) [2]

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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-06-57

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ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather feedback (PENDING) [3]

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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-00

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ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod norm (PENDING) [4]

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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-12

16:32:35 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mary to review http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after 18 May before 30 June (PENDING) [5]

16:32:35 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-22

16:32:35 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on ws-i18n (PENDING) [6]

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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-31

16:32:35 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it (PENDING) [7]

16:32:35 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-18-42

16:32:35 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion, see Martin's mail at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jun/0012.html [8]

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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-22-12

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ACTION: Richard to reply to accessibility people about CDF issue [9]

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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-i18ncore-irc#T14-43-57

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