IRC log of dawg on 2006-06-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:18:08 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #dawg
- 13:18:08 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/06/06-dawg-irc
- 13:18:21 [kendallclark]
- zakim, what conferences?
- 13:18:21 [Zakim]
- I see no active conferences
- 13:18:22 [Zakim]
- scheduled at this time is VB_VBPAG()9:00AM
- 13:18:39 [kendallclark]
- zakim, this will be DAWG
- 13:18:39 [Zakim]
- ok, kendallclark; I see SW_DAWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
- 13:21:38 [kendallclark]
- agenda+ convene, take role, approve last meeting's minutes
- 13:21:40 [LeeF]
- LeeF has joined #dawg
- 13:21:45 [kendallclark]
- agenda+ track action items
- 13:22:05 [kendallclark]
- agenda+ Semantics and complexity of SPARQL
- 13:22:07 [LeeF]
- dangnabbit
- 13:22:15 [kendallclark]
- agenda+ Namespace of builtin functions?
- 13:22:15 [LeeF]
- tricksy spacebar
- 13:22:34 [kendallclark]
- agenda+ Patel-Schneider's LC comments
- 13:22:55 [kendallclark]
- agenda+ Next meeting when?
- 13:29:34 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
- 13:29:41 [Zakim]
- +??P0
- 13:29:43 [AndyS]
- zakim, ??P0 is me
- 13:29:43 [Zakim]
- +AndyS; got it
- 13:30:10 [Zakim]
- +Kendall_Clark
- 13:30:53 [Zakim]
- + +1.650.372.aaaa
- 13:31:00 [Zakim]
- +Elias_Torres
- 13:31:42 [Zakim]
- +ericP
- 13:34:04 [patH]
- patH has joined #dawg
- 13:34:42 [Zakim]
- +PatH
- 13:34:46 [kendallclark]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 13:34:46 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, Kendall_Clark, +1.650.372.aaaa, Elias_Torres, ericP, PatH
- 13:34:55 [kendallclark]
- aaaa is FredZ
- 13:34:59 [kendallclark]
- zakim, aaaa is FredZ
- 13:34:59 [Zakim]
- +FredZ; got it
- 13:35:13 [ericP]
- regrets: libby
- 13:35:37 [kendallclark]
- Scribe: ericP
- 13:35:47 [ericP]
- scribe: Elias
- 13:35:48 [kendallclark]
- scribe: EliasT
- 13:36:38 [ericP]
- chair: KendallC
- 13:36:38 [Zakim]
- -Elias_Torres
- 13:36:49 [LeeF]
- Zakim, what's the phone number?
- 13:36:49 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, LeeF.
- 13:36:55 [LeeF]
- zakim, call info?
- 13:36:55 [Zakim]
- I am sorry, LeeF; I do not know a number for info?
- 13:36:55 [kendallclark]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0102.html
- 13:37:04 [AndyS]
- +1 617 761 6200
- 13:37:12 [Fred]
- Fred has joined #dawg
- 13:37:13 [AndyS]
- then 7333#
- 13:37:17 [kendallclark]
- code: 7333#
- 13:37:29 [Zakim]
- +[IBMCambridge]
- 13:37:41 [LeeF]
- zakim, IBMCambridge is me
- 13:37:41 [Zakim]
- +LeeF; got it
- 13:39:09 [AndyS]
- CR exit process? Has anything moved on since the CR request?
- 13:40:20 [kendallclark]
- zakim, pick a scribe?
- 13:40:20 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, kendallclark.
- 13:40:22 [kendallclark]
- zakim, pick a scribe
- 13:40:22 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose FredZ
- 13:40:36 [Zakim]
- +[IBMCambridge]
- 13:40:44 [EliasT]
- EliasT has joined #dawg
- 13:41:15 [ericP]
- next meeting: same bat time, same bat channel scribe: FredZ
- 13:41:16 [EliasT]
- Scribe: EliasT
- 13:41:21 [EliasT]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 13:41:21 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, Kendall_Clark, FredZ, ericP, PatH, LeeF, [IBMCambridge]
- 13:41:26 [EliasT]
- Zakim, IBMCambridge is me
- 13:41:26 [Zakim]
- +EliasT; got it
- 13:41:44 [AndyS]
- The other bot is RRSAgent which tracks actions and makes the log
- 13:41:53 [EliasT]
- Meeting: DAWG Weekly Meeting
- 13:42:01 [EliasT]
- Chair: kendallclark
- 13:42:34 [ericP]
- KendallC: [introducing the FredZ to scribing technique] record any decisions
- 13:42:55 [ericP]
- ... best effort to record what people say
- 13:43:14 [EliasT]
- FredZ, http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
- 13:43:30 [EliasT]
- FredZ, http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
- 13:43:41 [ericP]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0102 last working meeting
- 13:44:02 [ericP]
- RESOLVED: accept last working group meeting record as a true record
- 13:45:25 [kendallclark]
- zakim, next agendum
- 13:45:25 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "convene, take role, approve last meeting's minutes" taken up [from kendallclark]
- 13:45:33 [kendallclark]
- zakim, take up 2
- 13:45:33 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'take up 2', kendallclark
- 13:45:41 [kendallclark]
- zakim, next agendum
- 13:45:41 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 was just opened, kendallclark
- 13:45:50 [kendallclark]
- zakim, close agendum 1
- 13:45:50 [Zakim]
- agendum 1, convene, take role, approve last meeting's minutes, closed
- 13:45:51 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 13:45:52 [Zakim]
- 2. track action items [from kendallclark]
- 13:46:33 [AndyS]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-RDFterm-equal
- 13:46:42 [ericP]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#OperatorMapping Operator Mapping
- 13:48:57 [EliasT]
- kendallclark: ericP did you propose text and tests to add boolean {boolean <> = !=} to SPARQL?
- 13:49:08 [EliasT]
- ericP: I only sent email, have not checked in text to CVS
- 13:49:30 [EliasT]
- AndyS: do tests exist?
- 13:49:43 [EliasT]
- ericP: I wasn't paying too much attention.
- 13:51:37 [ericP]
- -> http://www.w3.org/mid/20060530062645.GS28271@w3.org aforementioned tests
- 13:53:13 [LeeF]
- FILTER ?a = ?b = ?c .
- 13:53:19 [LeeF]
- AndyS gets a parsing error
- 13:54:06 [LeeF]
- so does ericP
- 13:54:11 [ericP]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARQL?lang=perl&text=ASK+%7B+%3Ax+%3Ay+%3Az+FILTER+%28+%3Fa+%3D+%3Fb+%3D+%3Fc+%29+%7D&action=validate+text
- 13:55:21 [kendallclark]
- *ah*
- 13:55:39 [EliasT]
- ericP: FredZ proposes a syntax that would be ambigous. AndyS and ericP get parser errors.
- 13:55:45 [kendallclark]
- Steve: sure, we just got started, really
- 13:55:53 [AndyS]
- http://sparql.org/validator?query=SELECT+*%0D%0AWHERE%0D%0A+++%7B+FILTER+%28+%3Fa+%3D+%28%3Fb+%3D+%3Fc%29+%29+%7D&linenumbers=true
- 13:56:47 [ericP]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARQL?lang=perl&text=ASK+%7B+%3Ax+%3Ay+%3Az+FILTER+%28+%3Fa+%3D+%28+%3Fb+%3D+%3Fc+%29+%29+%7D&action=validate+text
- 13:57:58 [Zakim]
- +??P7
- 13:57:59 [EliasT]
- Zakim, agenda
- 13:57:59 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'agenda', EliasT
- 13:58:05 [LeeF]
- zakim, agenda?
- 13:58:05 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
- 13:58:06 [Zakim]
- 2. track action items [from kendallclark]
- 13:58:06 [SteveH]
- Zakim, +??P7 is SteveH
- 13:58:07 [Zakim]
- 3. Semantics and complexity of SPARQL [from kendallclark]
- 13:58:08 [Zakim]
- 4. Namespace of builtin functions? [from kendallclark]
- 13:58:09 [Zakim]
- 5. Patel-Schneider's LC comments [from kendallclark]
- 13:58:10 [Zakim]
- 6. Next meeting when? [from kendallclark]
- 13:58:11 [Zakim]
- sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named '+??P7'
- 13:58:16 [SteveH]
- Zakim, ??P7 is SteveH
- 13:58:16 [Zakim]
- +SteveH; got it
- 13:58:21 [EliasT]
- ACTION: LeeF to fix mimetype in json-reults [CONTINUES]
- 13:58:47 [EliasT]
- ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < >
- 13:58:47 [EliasT]
- = !=
- 13:58:47 [EliasT]
- boolean} to SPARQL [CONTINUES]
- 13:59:42 [LeeF]
- looking now
- 14:00:14 [LeeF]
- There's an incorrect reference to text/json in the document. that's my action.
- 14:00:21 [LeeF]
- the mime type that we use is orthogonal to my action.
- 14:02:01 [EliasT]
- ACTION: EliasT to submit mime-type registration for json-results.
- 14:03:29 [EliasT]
- ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests (unknown datatypes) [CONTINUES]
- 14:03:59 [LeeF]
- ACTION -4
- 14:04:00 [ericP]
- DONE
- 14:04:12 [LeeF]
- ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests (unknown datatypes) [DONE]
- 14:04:53 [AndyS]
- A != B on RDF-terms is currently not(RDF-term-equals) which is not open world
- 14:05:57 [ericP]
- 1 != "1"^^foo:int
- 14:06:29 [EliasT]
- AndyS: in an open-world is unknown.
- 14:07:03 [EliasT]
- ericP: would like it to result in a error.
- 14:07:29 [ericP]
- error is the tightest way to describe the result
- 14:07:31 [AndyS]
- Currently :: not( 1 = "1"^^foo:int) => true
- 14:07:42 [kendallclark]
- +1
- 14:08:34 [EliasT]
- patH: if we give a specific error in the case, bots could use that to perform private world calculations.
- 14:08:49 [AndyS]
- FILTER(?x=?y)
- 14:08:51 [kendallclark]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:08:51 [Zakim]
- Kendall_Clark should now be muted
- 14:09:19 [SteveH]
- FILTER(termEqual(?zx, ?Y))
- 14:09:32 [ericP]
- FILTER(?x=?y || ?x SAMETERM ?y)
- 14:09:52 [ericP]
- FILTER(?x=?y || ?x !SAMETERM ?y)
- 14:12:06 [kendallclark]
- zakim, unmute me
- 14:12:06 [Zakim]
- Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
- 14:15:13 [AndyS]
- Issue: Things like FILTER (?x = <x>) currently work.
- 14:15:29 [AndyS]
- which is intuitive.
- 14:15:34 [SteveH]
- +1
- 14:16:47 [kendallclark]
- zakim, next agendum
- 14:16:47 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "track action items" taken up [from kendallclark]
- 14:16:50 [EliasT]
- ACTION: AndyS to resend a proposal to solve equality testing over email, ericP and patH to give eyes.
- 14:16:57 [kendallclark]
- zakim, close 2
- 14:16:57 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'close 2', kendallclark
- 14:17:01 [kendallclark]
- zakim, close agendum 2
- 14:17:01 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, track action items, closed
- 14:17:02 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 14:17:03 [Zakim]
- 3. Semantics and complexity of SPARQL [from kendallclark]
- 14:18:56 [kendallclark]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jun/0008.html
- 14:19:03 [EliasT]
- ACTION: AndyS to contribute a couple tests for computed-properties/virtual-prop/builtin. one using lists, and one not using lists [DONE]
- 14:19:10 [EliasT]
- AndyS, was that right?
- 14:20:17 [SteveH]
- UNION is not compositional, having variables that appear only in UNION blocks is legal
- 14:21:05 [AndyS]
- More concrete example would be good - they showed it was compositionaly under the restrictions they assume.
- 14:22:25 [kendallclark]
- message seems full of concrete examples of their main claims...
- 14:22:58 [kendallclark]
- cool :)
- 14:23:48 [SteveH]
- +1 to most conservative
- 14:25:02 [SteveH]
- q+
- 14:25:14 [kendallclark]
- q?
- 14:27:30 [EliasT]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:27:30 [Zakim]
- EliasT should now be muted
- 14:28:00 [ericP]
- ack SteveH
- 14:29:49 [AndyS]
- SELECT * { pat OPT pat1 OPT pat2 }
- 14:30:11 [AndyS]
- SELECT * { { pat OPT pat1 } OPT pat2 }
- 14:30:21 [ericP]
- SELECT * { { pat OPT pat1 } . {} OPT pat2 }
- 14:31:11 [kendallclark]
- we'll cover for you Elias :)
- 14:31:25 [kendallclark]
- you slacker
- 14:31:28 [kendallclark]
- -wink-
- 14:31:50 [ericP]
- SELECT * { { pat OPT pat1 } { OPT pat2 } }
- 14:31:58 [ericP]
- SELECT * { { pat OPT pat1 } { { } OPT pat2 } }
- 14:32:55 [AndyS]
- (OPT (OPT pat pat1) pat2))
- 14:34:51 [AndyS]
- http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2005/HPL-2005-170.html
- 14:48:26 [ericP]
- 2006-06-06T12:55:56Z <ericP> "Paradoxical SPARQL query?", "Mismatch with multiple OPTIONAL and grammar?"
- 14:49:07 [AndyS]
- which is May 0009
- 14:49:41 [AndyS]
- "FILTER evaluation problem" is Apr 0025
- 14:50:41 [Zakim]
- -EliasT
- 14:51:26 [Zakim]
- -LeeF
- 14:59:04 [AndyS]
- OPT is binary - gives an interpretation of the query
- 14:59:29 [AndyS]
- This goes back to an ealier dialog when they had a different design for optional
- 14:59:32 [kendallclark]
- ACTION EricP: to send mail about 3-part interpretation of optionals
- 14:59:47 [EliasT]
- EliasT has joined #dawg
- 15:00:04 [kendallclark]
- ACTION PatH: to kibbitz with EricP about 3-part interpretation of optionals
- 15:00:42 [kendallclark]
- ACTION KendallC: to tell Martin Soto that we're considering his comments
- 15:01:01 [AndyS]
- hence I believe its already been answered
- 15:03:22 [kendallclark]
- ADJOURNED
- 15:03:35 [Zakim]
- -Kendall_Clark
- 15:03:37 [Zakim]
- -SteveH
- 15:03:43 [Zakim]
- -FredZ
- 15:05:41 [AndyS]
- rrsagent, please make logs world-readable
- 15:06:11 [EliasT]
- rrsagent, please generate log
- 15:06:11 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'please generate log', EliasT. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 15:06:24 [ericP]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 15:06:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/06/06-dawg-minutes.html ericP
- 15:08:22 [AndyS]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:08:22 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, ericP, PatH
- 15:13:58 [ericP]
- ( A OPT B) . (C OPT D)
- 15:14:19 [ericP]
- vs. ((A OPT B) OPT D) . C
- 15:15:59 [AndyS]
- (A OPT B OPT C)
- 15:16:11 [AndyS]
- (OPT (OPT A B) C)
- 15:17:04 [ericP]
- ((A OPT B) OPT C)
- 15:17:14 [AndyS]
- (A - B - C ) => (- (- A B) C)
- 15:18:51 [LeeF]
- this is fun to watch without hearing the conversation. sort of hypnotizing.
- 15:19:06 [patH]
- just wait until we get to D and E.
- 15:19:24 [ericP]
- working backwords from ZZZ, we get ...
- 15:20:13 [patH]
- binary makes it possible to write (A opt (B opt C)), I presume?
- 15:20:22 [patH]
- That would be impossible with 'unary'
- 15:20:44 [patH]
- Right.
- 15:20:47 [ericP]
- {}
- 15:20:50 [AndyS]
- Yes - because the brackets were added
- 15:21:01 [ericP]
- { OPT A }
- 15:21:29 [AndyS]
- {} is true
- 15:21:34 [ericP]
- []
- 15:21:44 [AndyS]
- { OPT A } => { {} OPT A }
- 15:22:04 [ericP]
- [[]]
- 15:22:12 [patH]
- Yes, in logic (and)=true and (or) =false
- 15:22:57 [patH]
- Gotta go.
- 15:23:01 [Zakim]
- -PatH
- 15:23:17 [AndyS]
- Thx PatH
- 15:23:36 [ericP]
- http://unagi/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#OptionalMatchingDefn
- 15:23:47 [ericP]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#OptionalMatchingDefn
- 15:24:23 [AndyS]
- { } OPTIONAL { pattern } => { { } OPTIONAL { pattern } }
- 15:25:43 [ericP]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#GroupPatterns
- 15:26:34 [AndyS]
- Add {} before 4.2
- 15:26:50 [AndyS]
- and renumber / re-TOC rest of 4
- 15:31:31 [Zakim]
- -ericP
- 15:31:48 [ericP]
- odd
- 15:31:59 [AndyS]
- Bye then :-)
- 15:32:11 [Zakim]
- -AndyS
- 15:32:13 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
- 15:32:14 [Zakim]
- Attendees were AndyS, Kendall_Clark, +1.650.372.aaaa, Elias_Torres, ericP, PatH, FredZ, LeeF, EliasT, SteveH
- 15:32:15 [ericP]
- yeah, can't get back in
- 15:32:36 [AndyS]
- Anyway - good point to get back to the agree plan - zakim is giving us a hint
- 15:32:43 [AndyS]
- Maybe we ran over the slot time.
- 15:32:48 [ericP]
- prolly
- 15:32:49 [LeeF]
- you can get Zakim to allocate a room for you
- 15:33:04 [AndyS]
- AndyS has left #dawg
- 15:33:29 [ericP]
- afs, do you want to pick this up with voice? or continue in email...
- 15:37:00 [AndyS]
- Prolly better to wait for your email and involve everyone in the discussion. Concrete examples (for the test suite as well?) will help other implementers
- 15:37:38 [AndyS]
- (unless there is somethign you need for that email, of course)
- 17:14:50 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #dawg
- 17:52:26 [SteveH]
- SteveH has joined #dawg