W3C

RDF-in-XHTML TF

3 Apr 2006

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Ralph Swick, Ben Adida, Steven Pemberton, Mark Birbeck
Regrets
Jeremy
Chair
Ben
Scribe
Ralph
Previous
2006-03-27

Contents


 

Ben: My WWW2006 Dev Track proposal was accepted

Mark: my proposal was not accepted. My second proposal on using XHTML as an application development language was accepted, however; perhaps we can squeeze some demos into the accepted talk

Ben: congratulations are shared with the group, as it's a group effort

Mark: let's schedule time to talk about these presentations also. I'm doing an RDF/A presentation at XTech in Amsterdam

Ben: Mike Shaver is interested in having RDF/A in a slot in a session he's organizing

Steven: 17 April is also Easter holiday in Europe

RESOLVED: meet 18 April rather than 17 April

Steven: slight risk for 10 April as I'll be in Amsterdam

Action Item Review

ACTION: [PENDING] Ben review Jeremy's actions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/20-htmltf-minutes.html#action14]

ACTION: [PENDING] Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]

ACTION: [WITHDRAWN] Ben talk off-line with Jeremy about a realistic implementation schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]

Ben: Creative Commons has made an offer to host such a site

Mark: is this a general offer or specific to RDF/A?

Ben: targeted at RDF/A

ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]

ACTION: [PENDING] Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]

ACTION: [PENDING] Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action12]

Ben: not complete but did some more investigation. Firefox requires application/xhtml+xml to be well-formed XML

Steven: IE doesn't accept this mime type anyway. Opera used to refuse to display if it was not well-formed but now it tries to fix it up and display it anyway so Opera used to do the right thing but doesn't any longer

Ralph: Opera's position is that users blame the browser if the page doesn't display, not the page author :(

Ben: I split the RDF/A parsing out from my bookmarklet. For XHTML mode I was planning to parse the LINK and META elements

Mark: you don't need to say that the bookmarklet *only* works with application/xhtml+xml

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Jeremy followup on HEAD about= edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]

ACTION: [CONTINUES] once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

Steven: we've had a few spec crises about document maturity transitions the past week and all my time has gone to those

Report on Discussion with Mozilla

Ben: during my vacation last week I stopped in at Mozilla. This was fortuitous, as Mozilla was having their own meeting too. I met Mike Shaver. I suggested it would help if Mozilla would process LINK and META. There is a connection between RDF/A and "tails" in Firefox. Ray Ozzie's LiveClipboard demo showed copy&paste of rich data; it occurred to me that this kind of thing can be done with RDF/A and would be more functional

Mark: we're making a Sidewinder demo that uses a .js file for cross-app communication. See report of IPTC meeting; those folk heard about ATOM

-> Notes from the spring IPTC meeting [Misha Wolf]

Mark: IPTC is publicly supporting RDF/A. They've also made an arrangement with ATOM so news sites will be marked up with RDF/A very soon

Ralph: they're relying on features of RDF/A, right? a NewsML file won't say it's an HTML file.

Mark: yes, but an RDF/A processor will get the intended triples out of a NewsML file. NewsML documents aren't meant to be shipped directly to the browser; they're intended to be processed in some fashion first

XHTML 1.1 Modularization of RDF/A

ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

Mark: I'm hoping to be able to get to this action towards the end of this week

Implementation: new modular RDF/A bookmarklet

<benadida> http://ben.adida.net/rdfa/new/howto

<benadida> http://ben.adida.net/rdfa/new/cc.js

Ben: 'howto' is a quick introduction on bootstrapping yourself into an RDF/A parser. cc.js finds CC licenses and offers users a link to read them

<benadida> RDFA.CALLBACK_DONE_PARSING = function() {

Ben: RDFA.CALLBACK_DONE_PARSING is the only piece of customized code for the bookmarklet. Asynchronous javascript script loading does force you to do all sorts of hacks. The wordpress blog plug-in is now RDF/A aware -- looks for CC licenses and does the right thing

Ralph: kudos to Ben!

Ben: I re-wrote my 'red box highlighter' to be based on this parser

Updating Primer WD

Ben: thoughts on what we'd like to add? examples for RDF Collections?

Mark: given how easy it is to add things to blogs, I'd like to see the first part of the primer extended to include RSS feeds, ForSale items, birthday, etc.; keep embellishing

Ralph: art to embellishing that doesn't result in a long complicated-looking thing for the first-time reader

Steven: Examples section could contain lots and lots of them. Common use cases are an ideal way to show things

Ralph: progressive exposure of details

Mark: keep an overarching tutorial but rather than illustrating each individual point with a small box, dwell on each one for a bit and expand before moving on to the next case. We're talking to people who can do HTML markup and now want to know how to do RDF/A. Maybe the Web site is the place to add lots and lots of examples

Ben: let's try to close some of these actions

Multiple values in 'rel'

Mark: IPTC was concerned that we might not support multiple CURIEs in 'rel'

Steven: I can't think of a showstopper

RESOLVED: rel, rev, and property may include multiple CURIEs

Ralph: what about 'about'?

Ben: 'about' is inherited so the number of triples may expand a lot

Ralph: "all of these photos were created by Mark Birbeck"

Steven: rev only works with literals

Ben: I think of 'about' and 'href' as being mirror-images and we don't know how to do multiple hrefs

Mark: for a machine to generate compact markup it seems reasonable

Ralph: if the HTML WG thinks multiple values in 'href' is ok, then we might proceed. But what is a browser supposed to do?

Mark: multiple values in href could create a menu of destinations

[adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben review Jeremy's actions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/20-htmltf-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy followup on HEAD about= edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: Ben talk off-line with Jeremy about a realistic implementation schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2006/04/04 16:03:23 $