IRC log of i18nits on 2006-03-31
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:47:42 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18nits
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc
- 14:47:55 [fsasaki]
- meeting: i18n ITS working group (editor's call)
- 14:47:59 [fsasaki]
- chair: Yves
- 14:48:01 [fsasaki]
- scribe: Felix
- 14:48:05 [fsasaki]
- scribeNick: fsasaki
- 14:48:27 [YvesS]
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- 14:48:49 [YvesS]
- Hi Felix. What do you think we should discuss today?
- 14:49:14 [fsasaki]
- hi Yves. How about the naming issues? I think that's what the said on Wednesday
- 14:49:23 [fsasaki]
- do you have other proposals?
- 14:49:45 [YvesS]
- "data cat" and "loc prop"? OK
- 14:49:52 [fsasaki]
- ok
- 14:50:47 [YvesS]
- I have a question about overwriting vs overiding too.
- 14:50:47 [fsasaki]
- Btw., I am *slowly* integrating the changes into the draft. But it takes a long time, since so much terminology changed. If you see errors, just ping me inbetween (as with the DITA examples, thanks).
- 14:50:52 [fsasaki]
- ok
- 14:51:04 [YvesS]
- ok
- 14:51:37 [YvesS]
- I'll try to re-read completely the draft this today or this week-end
- 14:52:41 [fsasaki]
- I am not as far as I wanted with my change ... I hope to have everything integrated in Tuesday (Japanese time)
- 14:52:56 [YvesS]
- ok.
- 14:53:07 [fsasaki]
- But I'll post DIFFs to the member list after each "topic" (currently the syntax changes )
- 14:53:33 [YvesS]
- sounds good.
- 14:54:08 [YvesS]
- BTW: can we close any bug? it seems the more we discuss them the more we have :)
- 14:55:43 [YvesS]
- Also: just to warn you: I've talked with DITA people about translate and the expected behavior is much more user-oriented than our rules. I'll try to summarize all this soon.
- 14:55:53 [fsasaki]
- I guess that's normal :) but I don't think we have to worry: If we discuss until May what we have currently in time schedule, we'll be fine. I am entering new bugs only so that we don't forget them. Is there anything particular which you want to close?
- 14:55:59 [fsasaki]
- ok
- 14:56:22 [YvesS]
- no, I was just looking at the list getting longer :)
- 14:56:49 [fsasaki]
- :)
- 14:58:29 [fsasaki]
- I think it's o.k. not to spend time on everything, just use bugzilla as a reminder of issues. We *have to* address only the last call comments from outside which we will get
- 14:58:40 [Zakim]
- I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has now started
- 14:58:46 [fsasaki]
- zakim, dial felix-home
- 14:58:46 [Zakim]
- ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
- 14:58:48 [Zakim]
- +Yves_Savourel
- 14:59:31 [Zakim]
- +Felix
- 15:07:28 [fsasaki]
- <its:translateRule select="//*[name()='a' or ...] translate="yes"
- 15:07:39 [fsasaki]
- <its:translateRule select="//*[name()='b' or ...] translate="no"
- 15:08:57 [YvesS]
- http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
- 15:09:32 [Zakim]
- +??P9
- 15:09:57 [YvesS]
- http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
- 15:10:02 [chriLi]
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- 15:10:07 [YvesS]
- http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
- 15:10:07 [fsasaki]
- http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
- 15:11:11 [fsasaki]
- topic: translatability in DITA
- 15:11:19 [fsasaki]
- examples from Yves: http://okapi.translate.com/Utilities/ITSTest.aspx
- 15:12:07 [fsasaki]
- Yves: for third <p> element, it is very difficult to mimic this with ITS
- 15:12:31 [fsasaki]
- .. translate "yes" in DITA means: only what is "usually" translatable again
- 15:12:57 [fsasaki]
- Christian: we do "pointing" with our rules
- 15:13:16 [fsasaki]
- .. but the computation of values differs in DITA
- 15:14:04 [fsasaki]
- felix: how would we solve this for DITA?
- 15:14:15 [fsasaki]
- Christian: two possibilities:
- 15:14:29 [fsasaki]
- .. creating ITS for an arbitrary computation of values
- 15:14:53 [fsasaki]
- .. no 2: we say this is "pointing", and this is only valid in very restricted environments
- 15:15:51 [fsasaki]
- .. or we try to create ITS mechanisms which are able to mimic DITAs behavior
- 15:17:14 [fsasaki]
- felix: how about analyzing DITA more in detail?
- 15:18:39 [fsasaki]
- yves: XLIFF has the same behavior as ITS
- 15:19:23 [fsasaki]
- s/as ITS/as DITA
- 15:23:48 [fsasaki]
- topic: naming issue: data category?
- 15:24:24 [fsasaki]
- yves: no strong feeling about this
- 15:24:50 [fsasaki]
- .. only the order in the draft is not good: we talk about it before we defined it
- 15:26:01 [fsasaki]
- felix: +1 for data category
- 15:26:41 [fsasaki]
- christian: changing a term has a lot of implications
- 15:27:52 [fsasaki]
- felix: no need to change that, would create conclusion between people who have followed ITS
- 15:28:12 [fsasaki]
- yves: o.k.
- 15:28:48 [fsasaki]
- action: Felix to write a mail to the data category thread
- 15:29:13 [fsasaki]
- topic: naming issues: tag set
- 15:29:17 [fsasaki]
- yves: that bug is closed
- 15:29:26 [fsasaki]
- topic: naming issue: localization property
- 15:29:56 [fsasaki]
- yves: the paragraph is fine with me
- 15:30:44 [fsasaki]
- felix: +1
- 15:32:13 [fsasaki]
- topic: draft text and usage of "overwriting"
- 15:32:31 [fsasaki]
- yves: I keep seeing "overriding" everywhere, also in W3C specs
- 15:32:36 [YvesS]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/dirlang.html#h-8.2.4
- 15:33:04 [fsasaki]
- .. e.g. XHTML talks about the same functionality
- 15:35:04 [fsasaki]
- action: Yves to write a mail about his finding about the usage of "overriding"
- 15:36:07 [fsasaki]
- topic: editing environment
- 15:36:19 [fsasaki]
- christian: editing environment works
- 15:37:44 [fsasaki]
- .. I took an ODD document, and it was not valid
- 15:38:24 [fsasaki]
- felix: might be the @diff attribute
- 15:39:17 [fsasaki]
- topic: change of the schema design
- 15:39:33 [fsasaki]
- thread between Sebastian and Felix
- 15:43:06 [fsasaki]
- Yves: I would use the schema out of the box
- 15:43:16 [fsasaki]
- .. I would not change any definitions
- 15:44:40 [fsasaki]
- christian: me too
- 15:46:17 [chriLi]
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- 15:47:19 [fsasaki]
- http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html#conformance-product-schema
- 15:48:55 [fsasaki]
- yves: these definitions are geared to document centered XML
- 15:49:00 [fsasaki]
- .. not data oriented XML
- 15:50:49 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0501.html
- 15:52:31 [fsasaki]
- > The conformance section could say "you have to
- 15:52:32 [fsasaki]
- > either use our schema fragments, or else what you
- 15:52:32 [fsasaki]
- > write has to implement exactly the same constraints as those
- 15:52:32 [fsasaki]
- > schema fragments".
- 15:53:32 [fsasaki]
- felix: how about this 'simplistic' conformance description?
- 15:53:45 [fsasaki]
- action: Yves to look at conformance section
- 15:56:11 [fsasaki]
- topic: rules element with prefixed attributes?
- 15:56:48 [fsasaki]
- <its:translateRule selector=".." translate="'yes"
- 15:56:54 [fsasaki]
- <its:translateRule its:selector=".." its:translate="'yes"
- 15:58:27 [fsasaki]
- <att>translate</att>
- 15:59:37 [fsasaki]
- <att>its:translate</att>
- 15:59:53 [fsasaki]
- <att type="global">translate</att>
- 16:00:59 [fsasaki]
- action: Yves to see what problems could happen if there is no prefix at rule elements?
- 16:02:46 [Zakim]
- -Yves_Savourel
- 16:02:47 [Zakim]
- -Felix
- 16:02:56 [fsasaki]
- present: Christian, Felix, Yves
- 16:03:02 [fsasaki]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 16:03:12 [fsasaki]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:03:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
- 16:06:42 [Zakim]
- -Christian
- 16:06:43 [Zakim]
- I18N_ITS(EDIT)10:00AM has ended
- 16:06:44 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Felix, Christian
- 16:06:50 [fsasaki]
- zakim, bye
- 16:06:50 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #i18nits
- 16:06:54 [fsasaki]
- rrsagent, bye
- 16:06:54 [RRSAgent]
- I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-actions.rdf :
- 16:06:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Felix to write a mail to the data category thread [1]
- 16:06:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc#T15-28-48
- 16:06:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Yves to write a mail about his finding about the usage of "overriding" [2]
- 16:06:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc#T15-35-04
- 16:06:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Yves to look at conformance section [3]
- 16:06:55 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc#T15-53-45
- 16:06:55 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Yves to see what problems could happen if there is no prefix at rule elements? [4]
- 16:06:55 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/31-i18nits-irc#T16-00-59