LLD XG

<antoine> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0095.html

<antoine> Scribe: Gordon

<antoine> Scribenick: GordonD

Admin

<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html

RESOLUTION: Accept minutes

Face-to-face meetings

<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010

Tom: I am working with Pete Johnston on the joint meeting with DC Architecture Forum

<emma> here is the background document (from the agenda) http://dublincore.org/architecturewiki/DcamInContext

TomB: Meeting agenda is near-final, basic outline, unless anyone wishes to add something

<jodi> (also try scrolling down, there's a float drop problem in that webpage)

<scribe> ACTION: Any proposed changes to agenda for joint meeting with DC Architecture Forum (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010), please email TomB [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action01]

<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh

Antoine: Agenda for face2face meeting under development
... intention today is to make progress on draft agenda

jneubert: agenda for Cologne meeting will be developed after mid-October

antoine: Will allow output of Pittsburgh f2f to be considered

Use cases and case studies - update

Karen: Have made progress on structuring use cases against topic list

emma: Need to find use cases that illustrate topics (if no use case matched so far)

<Asaf> Perhaps a clarification is needed in the Topic wiki page as to what the nicks after each item mean -- people interested in the topic? People owning use cases related to the topic? etc.

emma: Suggest next couple of calls discuss who is interested in each topic, and why, to fill-in gaps in use-case evidence

Karen: Spreadsheet created to match use-cases against topics

Antoine: Useful to share with the group, and group members can confirm matches

<Asaf> I volunteer to help convert it to a Wiki table. I grok wiki syntax.

<jodi> it is possible to share a google doc with a mailing list, but I don't think that's the preferrred alternative

Karen: Will export spreadsheet in csv for conversion to a wiki table

<Asaf> yup

<scribe> ACTION: Karen to export spreadsheet, and Asaf to convert to wiki table [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action02]

emma: suggest conversion of Karen's other document to wiki, link-up table to use-cases, etc.
... spreadsheet is becoming difficult to use as number of use cases increases

Karen: some topics may not have use cases, we need to identify and provide additional evidence

<scribe> ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action03]

<scribe> ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about supplying additional use-cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action04]

<scribe> ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

<Asaf> Repeat my earlier comment: <Asaf> Perhaps a clarification is needed in the Topic wiki page as to what the nicks after each item mean -- people interested in the topic? People owning use cases related to the topic? etc.

<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Topics#Nicknames

<Asaf> +q

<Zakim> monica, you wanted to ask if adding topics/interests still welcome

<emma> observes that we have a pending action on this

<scribe> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08]

<marcia> Could Kai introduce what he did before for user case studies?

antoine: changing topics may cause problems for matching process, suggest any changes signalled to list as an alert

<kai> @marcia: what do you mean?

<marcia> you did user case analysis before, how did you do?

<marcia> using a topic sheet to match or...?

asaf: clarify - what is relationship between topics and nicks (interest, action, other?)

<kai> ah, ok. Yes, I did it for software development, but I am not sure if this does lead to more confusion... ;-)

<emma> @asaf, initially it means that people are interested in the topics

<kai> marcia? can you speak?

marcia: what did Kai do with use cases previously?

kai: abstract use cases to identify requirements, requirements then related back to use cases
... need to curate use cases, especially when submitted from outside the group
... for example, relating use cases to each other, assign to topics
... use cases may cluster hierarchically, allows abstraction to identify requirements

antoine: use case curators should feed back to use case owners to improve clarity, etc.

<Asaf> My use case is almost finished: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/User:Abartov/DraftUC -- but I can't quite find instruction on how to contribute a use case from within the group -- do I just stick it in [[Use Cases]] or do I send it to Karen or...?

<emma> @asaf just stick it in [[Use Cases]]

<emma> then send a message to the list to announce it

<Zakim> emma, you wanted to ask if we have to modify the use cases in the process

emma: use cases may be modified during curation

antoine: but care should be taken to preserve original meaning/intention

<antoine> ?

<marcia> thanks, Kai, very helpful.

<kai> thanks marcia, you are welcome :-)

alexander: where and how do we define requirements; need to be separate from topics
... can begin to identify/define requirements during use case curation

antoine: f2f meeting a good opportunity to start identification of requirements
... may be difficult to do it in advance of f2f: short timescale, new use cases may arrive

alexander: we could set up infrastructure for initial identification of requirements (ad hoc) prior to f2f

<jodi> alexander: duly noted! :)

<scribe> ACTION: Alexander to create wiki page for identifying requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action06]

<Zakim> emma, you wanted to ask if UC curation before or after F2F

emma: do we have to identify requirements as well as matching topics

antoine: no obligation to do so

karen: may need to give topics identifiers (numbers) to make cross-referencing easier

<TomB> suggest we not number them, but name them (simple handles)

<emma> +1 for IDs ;-)

<fsasaki> +1

<marcia> +1 tomB

+1 tomB

<Asaf> Also, if the topics are Wiki headings, they are easily referenced as anchors.

karen: need nicknames for topics

<kai> +1

antoine: be careful not to expend too much effort before f2f

emma: need to do something now, to be prepared
... can be incorporated into use case/topic matching process

<marcia> I think some topics contain more than one in one topic line, the first thing maybe to break down

Topics for LLD discussion and Use Cases (Karen)

<scribe> ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]

Wiki pages for capturing relevant links and ideas

Upcoming topics - FYI...

AOB