14:28:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:28:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-irc
14:29:06 <DanC> Zakim, this is DAWG
14:29:06 <Zakim> ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM
14:30:41 <Zakim> +DanC
14:30:56 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:30:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P9, [IBMCambridge], PatH, DanC
14:31:09 <LeeF> zakim, [IBMCambridge] is temporarily LeeF
14:31:10 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:31:20 <AndyS> zakim, ??P9 is AndyS
14:31:20 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:31:58 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
14:31:58 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
14:32:20 <ericP> zakim, please dial danbri-home
14:32:20 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:32:21 <Zakim> +Danbri
14:32:41 <ericP> zakim, Danbri is really ericP
14:32:41 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
14:32:49 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0532/27-dawg-minutes.html 27 Sep minutes
14:32:59 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0532/27-dawg-minutes.html 27 Sep minutes
14:33:07 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0017.html 4 Oct minutes
14:33:30 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0017.html 4 Oct minutes
14:33:41 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, LeeF, PatH, DanC, ericP
14:33:47 <Zakim> +SteveH
14:34:29 <Zakim> + +1.781.405.aaaa
14:34:44 <DanC> Zakim, aaaa is Elias
14:34:44 <Zakim> +Elias; got it
14:35:22 <DanC> Regrets+ KendallC
14:35:51 <Zakim> +Bijan_Parsia
14:36:14 <bijan> bijan has joined #dawg
14:36:40 <bijan> zakim, mute me
14:36:41 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should now be muted
14:36:46 <LeeF> Next meeting: 2005-October-18
14:37:09 <LeeF> Scribe: ericP
14:37:32 <bijan> unmute me
14:37:36 <DanC> 3 actions continue
14:37:41 <DanC> Zakim, unmute bijan
14:37:41 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should no longer be muted
14:37:50 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
14:37:50 <LeeF> With no news, continue Bijan's actions
14:38:04 <EliasT> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:38:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, LeeF, PatH, DanC, ericP, SteveH, Elias, Bijan_Parsia
14:38:21 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
14:38:34 <LeeF> ACTION: Bijan to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not
14:38:36 <LeeF> CONTINUED
14:38:47 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:38:47 <Zakim> agendum 2. "QL test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]
14:38:48 <bijan> zakim, mute me
14:38:48 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should now be muted
14:38:51 <LeeF> ACTION Bijan: estimate impact of "abstract syntax entailment" etc. on WG test harness
14:38:53 <LeeF> CONTINUED
14:39:27 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
14:39:27 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should no longer be muted
14:39:30 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
14:39:33 <bijan> q+
14:40:10 <AndyS> To be changed: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-testing-values-isuri
14:42:02 <ericP> Revision 1.445  2005/07/27 17:36:40  eric
14:42:02 <ericP> ~s/isURI/isIRI/ <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0062">potentially addressing</a> Bjoern Hoehrmann's <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0040">comments</a>
14:43:21 <ericP> i thought i had some encouragement in this direction. i will look...
14:43:26 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve 21 tests from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0491.html except  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-testing-values-isuri
14:43:42 <LeeF> RESOLVED, abstentions: ericP
14:43:43 <bijan> q-
14:43:46 <bijan> q+
14:43:46 <DanC> agenda + isIRI/isURI
14:44:57 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0498.html Oedipus test case (OWL-DL semantics)
14:45:34 <ericP> note for isIRI/isURI: i did not handle this correctly so i expect some turbulence.
14:46:21 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
14:46:28 <LeeF> bijan: re: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0498.html first query has one distinguished variable (?x)  - ?y can vary from model to model = 1 result.  second query, ?y is distinguished -- leads to no  results
14:47:30 <Zakim> +Jos_De_Roo
14:49:55 <LeeF> DanC: this doesn't fit into our test harness because it requires taking the OWL DL closure of the graph
14:50:07 <bijan> zakim, mute me
14:50:07 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should now be muted
14:50:52 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0052.html
14:51:09 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0052.html test schema issues
14:51:31 <bijan> zakim, mute me
14:51:31 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia was already muted, bijan
14:51:55 <DanC> ericp's action continues
14:52:04 <AndyS> This changes a lot of bytes - including "out there"
14:52:18 <LeeF> ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in [12]09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]
14:52:21 <LeeF> CONTINUED
14:52:25 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUES]
14:52:27 <ericP> are there negative and positive syntax tests "out there"?
14:52:58 <AndyS> There is code that processes manifests.
14:53:07 <LeeF> ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve
14:53:09 <LeeF> CONTINUED
14:53:13 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:53:13 <Zakim> agendum 3. "issues#badIRIRef" taken up [from DanC]
14:53:40 <ericP> AndyS, yes, i'm trying to have 0 impact on the standard manifest-processing code
14:54:00 <DanC> 2.1.1 Query Term Syntax under http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#WritingSimpleQueries
14:54:01 <ericP> the prob is that the positivie syntax tests don't match the older schema
14:54:17 <DanC> A.1 IRI References in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#grammar
14:54:56 <LeeF> AndyS: Believes http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#WritingSimpleQueries and http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#grammar are now consistent with each other
14:58:06 <DanC> PROPOSED: that rq23 v1.501 addresses badIRIRef
14:58:23 <AndyS> Note this include http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0019.html
14:58:44 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
14:58:44 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should no longer be muted
14:59:24 <LeeF> PROPOSED: that rq23 v1.501 addresses badIRIRef
14:59:26 <LeeF> RESOLVED
15:00:22 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0032 Re: SPARQL: BASE IRI resolution 7 Sep
15:00:54 <ericP> 2.1.1 Query Term Syntax
15:01:32 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern. re ( http://www.w3.org/mid/431e392a.225659671@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de ) BASE IRI resolution comment
15:01:34 <LeeF> CONTINUED
15:01:55 <DanC> yes, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0019.html is editorial. pls respond to the commentor along those lines, Andy
15:02:33 <DanC> ACTION DanC: notify www-rdf-comments about difference between RDF URI refs and IRIs, e.g. spaces
15:02:51 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:02:51 <Zakim> agendum 4. "issues#punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC]
15:03:24 <LeeF> DONE: AFS to propose resolution to punctuationSyntax,
15:03:24 <LeeF> folding recent yakker grammar into editor's draft.
15:06:34 <DanC> REQUEST FOR TESTCASE: _ as 1st char of varname, a la http://www.w3.org/mid/20050802193708.4AE45CF@mail.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
15:06:58 <LeeF> PROPOSED: that the grammar in 1.501 addresses issue punctuationSyntax, noting relevant last call comments: twinql Retrospective, Please make sure the grammar is directly machine consumable. SPARQL: Backslashes in string literals, SPARQL variable names syntax
15:07:11 <LeeF> PROPOSED: that the grammar in 1.501 addresses issue punctuationSyntax
15:07:19 <LeeF> RESOLVED, abstentions: patH 
15:08:20 <DanC> ACTION AndyS: respond to grammar comments (x3)
15:08:42 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:08:42 <Zakim> agendum 5. "# issues#sort" taken up [from DanC]
15:09:28 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#OperatorMapping
15:10:07 <AndyS> A<B is compare to 1
15:10:16 <AndyS> should be -1
15:10:23 <LeeF> AndyS: A < B def'n in XPath Tests table in rq23 should use -1 rather than 1
15:10:23 <ericP> op:numeric-equal(fn:compare(A, B), -1)
15:10:44 <LeeF> (Table 11.1)
15:10:59 <ericP> A < B  xsd:stringxsd:stringop:numeric-equal(fn:compare(A, B), -1)xsd:boolean
15:11:11 <DanC> 10.1.3 ORDER BY "The "<" operator (see the Operator Mapping Table) defines the relative order of pairs of numerics, xsd:dateTimes and xsd:strings"
15:11:35 <AndyS> A >= B says -11
15:12:27 <LeeF> ericP: The second A < B line should be A > B . Will take 20 seconds.
15:13:43 <ericP> 1.507
15:13:56 <EliasT> The -11 is still there.
15:15:36 <LeeF> ericP: rq23 1.508 fixes both typos in table 11.1 -- AndyS concurs
15:16:43 <DanC> PROPOSED: that rq23 1.508 address issues#sort, specifically order of IRI terms
15:16:57 <LeeF> DONE: EricP to extend < and relational ops to string, get review by Andy  ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0484.html ) w/ fixes in 1.508
15:17:55 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:17:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, LeeF, PatH, DanC, ericP, SteveH, Elias, Bijan_Parsia, Jos_De_Roo
15:18:37 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#sort
15:21:49 <LeeF> PROPOSED: that rq23 1.508 address issues#sort, specifically order of IRI terms
15:21:53 <LeeF> RESOLVED
15:22:26 <DanC> ACTION Eric: respond to "ORDER with IRIs" comment
15:23:14 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-langMatches
15:23:20 <Zakim> -Bijan_Parsia
15:23:21 <ericP> 11.2.3.5½ sop:langMatches
15:23:25 <DanC> (would it be helpful if I edited the TOC to be 3 levels deep, using XSLT?)
15:23:54 <DanC>  langMatches("en_US", "EN")
15:24:40 <AndyS> Typo: s/_/-/
15:24:57 <LeeF> ericP: langMatches is hierarchical - matching up to hyphen
15:25:08 <LeeF> DanC: is this ours or did we take from XQuery?
15:25:48 <LeeF> ericP: It's ours since we already have [ string lang(node) ] made sense to do [ string langMatches(string, string) ]
15:27:32 <LeeF> AndyS: text at end of 11.2.3.5 1/2 brings up fact that lang(?v) when ?v is a lang-less literal is an error - AndyS does not think this should be the case
15:28:53 <ericP> sorry
15:29:45 <AndyS> Example: lang("abc")
15:30:04 <LeeF> patH: is there such a thing as a null language tag?
15:30:20 <LeeF> AndyS: in XML, they use the emty string 
15:30:35 <LeeF> DanC: this is not a language tag, it's semantics for the value of xml:lang
15:31:12 <LeeF> patH: Nervous about it being a *type* error as opposed to some other sort of error 
15:31:52 <SteveH> type erroris bad for laneg(?x) != "en" where you want matechs on untyped literals
15:32:33 <LeeF> AndyS: we use empty string in Jena, hasn't caused problems
15:35:30 <LeeF> ericP: datatype( ... ) returns URIs from typed literals, I've changed text to make datatype( ... ) on a plain literal a type error
15:37:04 <LeeF> DanC: inclined for datatype( plain literal ) to be xsd:string -- would like plain literals and string-typed literals to be indistinguishable
15:37:07 <Zakim> -Elias
15:39:19 <EliasT>  /me has to go to class at 11AM
15:39:53 <EliasT> 11:30 sorry.
15:41:10 <AndyS> I vote for proposals where datatype("abc") is not an error (  or we need hasDatatype(literal)  )
15:42:20 <LeeF> LeeF: Had a one-off need the other day to be able to detet difference between plain literal and xsd:string typed literals
15:42:56 <ericP> are you proposing something like sp:unLangedString?
15:42:58 <patH> could (?) make it be something that isnt a URI, to avoid possible confusion. 
15:43:28 <patH> Then BTW, its easy to generate an error if you want one.
15:43:51 <AndyS> Result is currently an xsd:anyURI
15:44:19 <DanC> odd. datatype("http:/.."^^xsd:anyURI) == datatype("foo")??!
15:44:25 <LeeF> DanC: motivation is to be able to query mixed datasets painlessly
15:45:08 <ericP> eek!
15:45:14 <ericP> super eek!
15:45:51 <AndyS> The result is of type xsd:anyURI (which is quite lax)
15:47:23 <SteveH> AndyS, yes, but id like not to, its silly
15:48:08 <DanC> POLL: on return from datatype("abc"): (a) type error (b) either type error or xsd:string (c) sparql:plain (d) "" (e) always xsd:string
15:48:20 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:48:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, LeeF, PatH, DanC, ericP, SteveH, Jos_De_Roo
15:49:10 <AndyS> Our experience is that users expect roundtripping of RDF/XML (e.g. lexical forms, xsd:strings) big :-(
15:49:18 <ericP> AndyS, c and e
15:49:33 <ericP> LeeF, ... please enter
15:49:42 <ericP> ahh, tx
15:50:07 <DanC> c/e c/d c/e e c/e e e
15:50:16 <LeeF> (a)
15:50:16 <LeeF> (b)
15:50:16 <LeeF> (c) +1 +1 +1 +1
15:50:16 <LeeF> (d)  +1
15:50:16 <LeeF> (e) +1 +.5 +1 +1 +1 +1
15:51:23 <DanC> support for hasDataType()?
15:54:16 <DanC> (this design discussion is based on so little experience that it's pretty much a coin-flip.)
15:57:54 <DanC> Zakim next item
15:57:59 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:57:59 <Zakim> agendum 6. "issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s" taken up [from DanC]
15:58:05 <DanC> Zakim, close item 6
15:58:06 <Zakim> agendum 6, issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s, closed
15:58:07 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:58:08 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:58:08 <Zakim> 7. toward Note on using SPARQL with WSDL 1.1 [from DanC]
15:58:10 <Zakim> agendum 7. "toward Note on using SPARQL with WSDL 1.1" taken up [from DanC]
16:00:05 <DanC> ADJOURN.
16:00:09 <Zakim> -Jos_De_Roo
16:00:10 <Zakim> -PatH
16:00:13 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
16:00:14 <Zakim> -SteveH
16:00:24 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:00:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:00:47 <DanC> LeeF, do you have what you need to send minutes for review in the next day or so?
16:00:56 <LeeF> I'd imagine so - thanks
16:01:06 <DanC> great.
16:02:34 <AndyS> IRC better?
16:02:40 <DanC> btw, AndyS, thanks for your work on the -comments list stuff. much appreciated.
16:02:53 <LeeF> oh cripes, did my "Scibe: ericP" re: next meeting break who RRSAgent thought was scribing for this meeting? Cripes.
16:03:15 <DanC> s/Scribe: ericP/Scribe: LeeF/
16:03:19 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:03:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:03:31 <ericP> worky?
16:04:07 <DanC> Chair: DanC
16:04:12 <DanC> Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly
16:04:14 <AndyS> isIRI should take a RDF term.
16:04:16 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:04:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:05:01 <DanC> Zakim, list attendees
16:05:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been PatH, DanC, LeeF, AndyS, ericP, SteveH, +1.781.405.aaaa, Elias, Bijan_Parsia, Jos_De_Roo
16:05:05 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:05:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:05:16 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:05:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:05:37 <DanC> there, that's as good as the tools can do, I think, LeeF 
16:06:14 <LeeF> that's pretty good, DanC, thanks :) I'll clean it up and mail it out.
16:06:39 <Zakim> -DanC
16:08:19 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:08:29 <DanC> LeeF, I see regrets from Souri in my inbox. If you can include those in the minutes, I'd appreciate it.
16:14:22 <LeeF> Sure thing.
16:19:49 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:19:57 <Zakim> -ericP
16:19:58 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:19:59 <Zakim> Attendees were PatH, DanC, LeeF, AndyS, ericP, SteveH, +1.781.405.aaaa, Elias, Bijan_Parsia, Jos_De_Roo
16:21:36 <bijan> bijan has joined #dawg
18:07:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
18:24:33 <LeeF> DanC, is it helpful if I add to the action list at the bottom any actions that we didn't mention which are still pending from last week (and, transitively, from weeks past)?
18:25:35 <DanC> yes, it is helpful
18:25:48 <LeeF> ok