14:11:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag-teamb
14:11:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc
14:12:00 <wendy> zakim, this will be wcag
14:12:00 <Zakim> ok, wendy; I see WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM scheduled to start 12 minutes ago
14:12:12 <wendy> zakim, ping me in 40 minutes
14:12:12 <Zakim> ok, wendy
14:39:37 <Yvette> hi Wendy
14:40:05 <rscano> rscano has joined #wcag-teamb
14:40:34 <Yvette> Ciao machissimo :-)
14:40:36 <rscano> hi :D
14:40:41 <rscano> http://europa.eu.int/information_society/policy/accessibility/com_ea_2005/index_en.htm fresh from today
14:41:39 <rscano> hi Wendy :)
14:42:24 <Yvette> Nice, I'm a member of of certifying organization here in the Netherlands :-) We should get plenty of new applications if people in the Netherlands start living up to this
14:45:46 <rscano> cool
14:46:20 <rscano> what about change of language? :D
14:47:26 <Yvette> what do you mean?
14:47:51 <bengt> bengt has joined #wcag-teamb
14:47:54 <rscano> "lang" attribute for words 
14:47:56 <rscano> hi bengt
14:47:59 <Yvette> AARRRGGGH
14:48:00 <Yvette> :-)
14:48:02 <rscano> :)
14:52:12 <Zakim> wendy, you asked to be pinged at this time
14:55:36 <rscano> +1.617.761.6200, conference
14:55:36 <rscano> 92242 ("WCAG2") ?
14:56:29 <bengt> zakim, this is wcag-teamb
14:56:29 <Zakim> sorry, bengt, I do not see a conference named 'wcag-teamb' in progress or scheduled at this time
14:56:40 <bengt> zakim, what conferences
14:56:40 <Zakim> bengt, you need to end that query with '?'
14:56:42 <bengt> zakim, what conferences?
14:56:42 <Zakim> I see I18N_TS()10:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM active
14:56:44 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are XML_Core()11:00AM, DI_DIWG()10:00AM, WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM, MM_MMI(ink)11:00AM, P3P_SpecWG()11:00AM, MM_MMI(dialog)11:00AM, HTML_WG()10:00AM
14:56:53 <rscano> ah standard WAI_WCAG
14:58:32 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> jslatinOFHNetIRC has joined #wcag-teamb
14:58:41 <Yvette> Hi John
14:58:47 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> Hi, Yvette!
14:58:56 <Yvette> hmm, my passcode isn't valid
14:59:07 <rscano> yep also mine
14:59:11 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> were you trying 92248?
14:59:22 <Yvette> nope, 92242 (wcag team 2)
14:59:40 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> wendy's email yesterday said 92248 (the old TTF code)
15:00:01 <wendy> correct - old TTF code - 92248
15:00:13 <rscano> the call is rescrited at this time....
15:00:29 <bengt> yep no teamb id
15:00:32 <Yvette> ah ok
15:00:32 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started
15:00:35 <Zakim> +Wendy
15:00:46 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> call just started- we should be able to get in now
15:01:06 <Zakim> +??P6
15:01:14 <Yvette> zakim, ??P6 is Yvette_Hoitink
15:01:14 <Zakim> +Yvette_Hoitink; got it
15:01:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:29 <Zakim> +??P9
15:01:34 <Zakim> -??P9
15:01:36 <Zakim> +Diane_Stottlemyer
15:01:47 <wendy> zakim, IPcaller is Roberto_Scano
15:01:47 <Zakim> +Roberto_Scano; got it
15:01:54 <wendy> zakim, who's here?
15:01:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Roberto_Scano, Diane_Stottlemyer
15:01:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see jslatinOFHNetIRC, bengt, rscano, RRSAgent, Zakim, wendy, Yvette
15:02:05 <Zakim> +Becky_Gibson
15:02:23 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
15:02:38 <Becky> Becky has joined #wcag-teamb
15:02:41 <Zakim> +[IWA-HWG]
15:02:54 <rscano> IWA/HWG? :-/
15:03:10 <Yvette> Bengt, did you just join?
15:03:11 <Zakim> +John_Slatin
15:03:14 <bengt> me ?
15:03:24 <Zakim> -[IWA-HWG]
15:03:35 <Yvette> yes, we had an unidentified number on the phone (ip-caller)
15:04:05 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:04:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Roberto_Scano, Diane_Stottlemyer, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin
15:04:35 <Yvette> zakim, who's making noise?
15:04:47 <Zakim> Yvette, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Roberto_Scano (57%), Becky_Gibson (23%), John_Slatin (4%), Wendy (57%)
15:04:57 <rscano> zakim, mute me
15:04:57 <Zakim> sorry, rscano, I do not see a party named 'rscano'
15:05:06 <rscano> zakim, I am Roberto_Scano
15:05:06 <Zakim> ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano
15:05:10 <rscano> zakim, mute me
15:05:10 <Zakim> Roberto_Scano should now be muted
15:08:57 <wendy> Topic: defn of abbreviationa and acronym
15:09:15 <rscano> suggest: http://www.google.it/search?q=define:acronym&hl=it&lr=&defl=en
15:09:41 <rscano> An abbreviation of the first letters of a phrase or the long name of an organization that forms a word or conveys a message. In electronic communication or online documents, acronyms are used as writing shorthand or a method to communicate humor. Examples include IMHO (in my humble opinion), F2F (face-to-face), and WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). See http://www.marshall.edu/isp/ct107/emoticons.html for an online reference to frequently-used acronyms
15:09:41 <rscano> www.csus.edu/uccs/training/online/glossary.htm
15:10:00 <Yvette> q+ to say "two techniques"
15:10:27 <wendy> ack yv
15:10:27 <Zakim> Yvette, you wanted to say "two techniques"
15:11:29 <Zakim> +??P17
15:12:10 <bengt> bengt has joined #wcag-teamb
15:13:08 <Yvette> zakim, ??P17 is Bengt_Farre
15:13:08 <Zakim> +Bengt_Farre; got it
15:13:15 <Yvette> zakim, bengt is Bengt_Farre
15:13:15 <Zakim> +Bengt_Farre; got it
15:14:51 <rscano> what about cases of words that are inside dictionary like: <ACRONYM TITLE="radio 
15:14:51 <rscano> detecting and ranging">radar</ACRONYM> ?
15:15:35 <wendy> roberto? can you get into queue add this to the discussion?
15:15:42 <rscano> opp sorry
15:15:59 <rscano> q+ to say "what about cases of words that are inside dictionary like: <ACRONYM TITLE="radio  detecting and ranging">radar</ACRONYM>"
15:16:04 <wendy> thx
15:16:41 <wendy> ack rober
15:16:42 <Zakim> Roberto_Scano, you wanted to say "what about cases of words that are inside dictionary like: <ACRONYM TITLE="radio  detecting and ranging">radar</ACRONYM>"
15:18:10 <wendy> some cases don't need to mark - AM, PM, RADAR, TV
15:19:10 <leasa> leasa has joined #wcag-teamb
15:19:15 <rscano> zakim, mute me
15:19:15 <Zakim> Roberto_Scano should now be muted
15:19:24 <leasa> Sorry I am running late - other call
15:21:49 <wendy> proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an unusual or restricted way, including idioms, jargon, acronyms, and abbreviations. (include acronyms? "deprecate" going forward?)
15:21:55 <Zakim> -Bengt_Farre.a
15:21:58 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
15:21:58 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
15:22:04 <bengt_> bengt_ has joined #wcag-teamb
15:22:04 <Zakim> +Luca_Mascaro
15:22:38 <wendy> zakim, Luca is Bengt
15:22:38 <Zakim> +Bengt; got it
15:23:13 <Yvette> q+
15:23:33 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
15:23:33 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
15:23:38 <wendy> ack y
15:23:58 <wendy> remove "acronym" since an HTML element
15:24:08 <Zakim> +??P17
15:24:17 <wendy> zakim, ??P17 is Lisa
15:24:17 <Zakim> +Lisa; got it
15:26:43 <wendy> proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an restricted way, including idioms, jargon, and abbreviations.  remove unusual because not testable. include abbreviations because some are more confusing if expanded (e.g., RADAR or AM, similar to not marking up "rendevous" as french in an english passage)
15:27:03 <wendy> unusual - what about irony? sarcasm? ambiguity?
15:27:06 <bengt_> bengt_ has joined #wcag-teamb
15:27:33 <wendy> covered under "restricted" because restricting definition to a particular one.
15:28:28 <Yvette> q+
15:28:37 <wendy> ack yv
15:28:55 <leasa> q+
15:30:36 <wendy> proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an restricted way, including idioms, jargon, and abbreviations. remove unusual because not testable. include abbreviations because some are more confusing if expanded (e.g., RADAR or AM, similar to not marking up "rendevous" as french in an english passage)
15:31:13 <wendy> ack l
15:33:02 <wendy> restricted way - there are times when a word has multiple defns and as an author, only one of those makes is useful for what i want to say.
15:33:44 <wendy> lisa is against removing word unusual
15:34:06 <wendy> action: becky and john work on wording of SC
15:34:57 <wendy> action 1 = becky and john work on working of SC and defns of abbreviation and acronym
15:36:19 <rscano> need url?
15:37:07 <rscano> Ok :)
15:38:13 <wendy> action: roberto combine bidirectional text posts with lisa's and send to list.
15:38:35 <Zakim> -Bengt
15:38:56 <wendy> Topic: specifying language
15:39:05 <wendy> if HTMl 4.01, use just lang
15:39:14 <wendy> if XHTML and serve as text/html, use both lang and xml:lang
15:39:27 <wendy> if XHTML serve as text/html+xml, just xml:lang
15:39:29 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> see GDoc for G 3.1 L1 SC1
15:39:50 <rscano> text/html+xml is application/xhtml+xml
15:39:58 <wendy> advisory for http and meta - but not consistently suppoted
15:40:13 <bengt_> bengt_ has joined #wcag-teamb
15:40:32 <wendy> meta only way to provide multiple primary languages as comma sep list
15:41:04 <wendy> ack j
15:41:16 <Yvette> q+
15:41:36 <wendy> are the 3 choices above (based on "flavor") the 3 sufficient techniqeus?
15:42:01 <wendy> ack y
15:43:08 <wendy> can have a comma-sep list of langs in xml:lang?
15:44:03 <Zakim> +??P1
15:44:12 <wendy> what about html 3.2 and lower? if can't spec language, can't use to conform?
15:44:26 <bengt> zakim, ??P1 is Bengt
15:44:26 <Zakim> +Bengt; got it
15:44:31 <wendy> what about flash?
15:44:43 <rscano> DTD don't let to use language codes for XML:lang but only "language code"
15:45:11 <wendy> PDF does support a lang attribute
15:45:21 <rscano> <!ENTITY % i18n 
15:45:21 <rscano>  "lang        %LanguageCode; #IMPLIED 
15:45:21 <rscano>   xml:lang    %LanguageCode; #IMPLIED
15:45:21 <rscano>   dir         (ltr|rtl)      #IMPLIED"
15:45:21 <rscano>   >
15:47:22 <wendy> action: john determine if can use comma-separate list in xml:lang
15:47:39 <wendy> action: becky write up the 3 sufficient techniques for identifying language
15:49:36 <wendy> Topic: definitin list proposal
15:49:40 <wendy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamb/2005Sep/att-0013/definitionlist-html-technique.htm
15:49:45 <rscano> for action 3, for XHTML 1.0:
15:49:47 <rscano> <!-- internationalization attributes 
15:49:48 <rscano>   lang        language code (backwards compatible) 
15:49:48 <rscano>   xml:lang    language code (as per XML 1.0 spec) 
15:49:48 <rscano>   dir         direction for weak/neutral text
15:49:48 <rscano> -->
15:50:02 <rscano>  language code <> language "codes" so is not possible to have xml:lang="it, en, ..." 
15:50:11 <wendy> task should say "use the defn list elements to provide definitions/define words"
15:50:43 <wendy> think that language codes is possible xml 1.1
15:50:55 <bengt_> bengt_ has joined #wcag-teamb
15:51:20 <wendy> action: becky determine if dl being deprecated in xhtml 2
15:51:27 <wendy> otherwise, resolution: adopt the technique
15:52:21 <wendy> Topic: definitions related to l3sc5
15:52:27 <wendy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamb/2005Sep/att-0043/gdoc_31l3sc5_alternatives_2005-09-12.htm
15:52:28 <rscano> from a HTML WG Member (in MSN): dl are not deprecated in XHTML 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-xhtml2-20040722/mod-list.html#edef_list_dl
15:52:52 <rscano> also as been extended with "nl"
15:52:54 <wendy> drop action 5
15:52:59 <wendy> zakim, drop action 5
15:53:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'drop action 5', wendy
15:53:40 <Zakim> -Diane_Stottlemyer
15:55:28 <Zakim> -Bengt
15:55:52 <wendy> resolution: propose - supplement  Additional content that illustrates or clarifies default text content, which users may use instead of or in addition to the default text content. For example, there may be supplements in text, graphics, and audio.
15:56:26 <wendy> resolution: propose - Education level Years of school completed, or highest degree achieved.  
15:58:41 <bengt_> bengt_ has joined #wcag-teamb
15:58:43 <Yvette> q+
15:58:57 <wendy> ack y
16:01:56 <Zakim> -Lisa
16:02:23 <bengt> bengt has left #wcag-teamb
16:04:09 <wendy> resolution: propose - Upper secondary education level - the approximate 3 year time period that typically begins at ages 15 or 16 usually after 9 years of full-time education according to the International Standard Classification of Education (UNESCO, 1997). 
16:07:39 <Yvette> q+
16:10:14 <leasa> leasa has left #wcag-teamb
16:11:05 <wendy> resolution: propose - Primary education level  - the approximate 6 year time period that typically begins at ages 5, 6, or 7 possibly without any previous education, according to the International Standard Classification of Education (UNESCO, 1997). 
16:11:36 <wendy> may be issues with the wording of the SC - need some clarification.
16:13:12 <wendy> trigger could be "requires reading level above.." and get rid of ambiguity that falls within upper secondary. "when text requires reading ability above the lower secondary education level"
16:13:24 <wendy> action: john defn for lower secondary education level
16:15:14 <Zakim> -Becky_Gibson
16:15:15 <rscano> bye all!
16:15:16 <Zakim> -Wendy
16:15:18 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
16:15:19 <Zakim> -Yvette_Hoitink
16:15:25 <wendy> action: wendy survey of definitions for thursday's call
16:15:28 <Zakim> -John_Slatin
16:15:30 <Zakim> -Roberto_Scano
16:15:31 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
16:15:32 <Zakim> Attendees were Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Diane_Stottlemyer, Roberto_Scano, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, [IWA-HWG], John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre, Luca_Mascaro, Bengt, Lisa
16:15:34 <wendy> action: wendy survey of other techniques and proposals for team for discussion.
16:15:56 <wendy> action: wendy follow-up w/folks re: action items and next steps. some folks may focus on techs for other guidelines, others on guides.
16:16:37 <wendy> Meeting: WCAG WG Team B (task force)
16:16:39 <wendy> chair: wendy
16:16:41 <wendy> scribe: wendy
16:16:49 <wendy> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:17:08 <wendy> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:17:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html wendy
16:19:31 <rscano> rscano has left #wcag-teamb
16:49:01 <Yvette> bye all
16:49:03 <Yvette> Yvette has left #wcag-teamb
16:57:17 <wendy> zakim, bye
16:57:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag-teamb
16:57:20 <wendy> RRSAgent, bye
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-actions.rdf :
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: becky and john work on working of SC and defns of abbreviation and acronym [1]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-34-06
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: roberto combine bidirectional text posts with lisa's and send to list. [2]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-38-13
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john determine if can use comma-separate list in xml:lang [3]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-47-22
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: becky write up the 3 sufficient techniques for identifying language [4]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-47-39
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: becky determine if dl being deprecated in xhtml 2 [5]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-51-20
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john defn for lower secondary education level [6]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T16-13-24
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wendy survey of definitions for thursday's call [7]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T16-15-25
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wendy survey of other techniques and proposals for team for discussion. [8]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T16-15-34
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wendy follow-up w/folks re: action items and next steps. some folks may focus on techs for other guidelines, others on guides. [9]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T16-15-56