See also: IRC log
<Andi> zakim IBM is Andi
<wendy> yvette? can you minute today?
<Yvette> sorry, I'm very tired so rather not
<Yvette> I just worked all day and had a meeting afterwards
<wendy> yvette - no worries.
<Andi> Wendy, I can take minutes
<wendy> andi - thank you.
<wendy> scribe: Andi
<David> test
Baseline affects which techniques are relevant at which level
leaning towards describing techniques with respect to individual technologies, not common baselines
need to close requirements document
as we approach Last Call, need to make sure that we are willing to be held to the requirements
At Last Call, if we haven't met any of the requirements, we can get bumped back in the process
action item to clean up requirements, in particular the "musts"
<Becky> scribe: becky
gv: today will focus on techniques
wc: congrats on getting the draft out!
mc: need to go thru GL
comprehensively and thinking most about script techs as these
are least developed
... suggest walking thru GLs and thinking about script
techs
... will harvest ideas - no discusions but can note objections
(w/o details) to proposed script techs
mc: GL 1.1 SC1 - have several
HTML and one CSS
... non-text content generated by script must have text
alternatives is one way of thinking about
<ben> success criterion to techniques mapping - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2005/06/30-sc-techniques-mapping.html
mc: tech-nontext elements generated by script must have text alternatives
bg: tech-need to show how to
properly add non-text elements that will work with AT
... clarify - add non-text elements via scripting
gv: what about using script for hiding content?
jc: that tech is often used for learning disabilities
<gregg> script used to hide text must be accounted for as well
<joeclark> but of course that also applies to HTML comments, display: none, and visibility: hidden
mc: move on to GL 1.1 SC2
<gregg> a link to a sequence of pages that provide function (for some simple function)
<Michael> describe the Becky nightmare where page has to reload over and over
<Michael> might be 4.2 stuf
bg: noted that seems like an HTML rather than script tech
mc: but is a way to provide
fallback when scripting not available
... need gen. tech for what is a good alt. for functional
non-text content - simple example is a calculater
gv: could provide link to server side implementation
yh: client side forms validation with server side back up
mc: see that as under another GL
but log it here
... move onto sensory non-text content GL 1.1 L1 SC3
gv: text labels above and below the sensory content
mc: next: GL 1.1 L1 SC4
yh: need css tech for using images as list item bullets
tb: thought we had that tech but got rid of it
jc: css background images are
being used freq now
... for decorative images
yh: can also use css for non-essential background audio
mc: would we consider no-script element with no content?
gv: putting it in a fashion so if
script is not supported it just disappears
... for decorative content
mc: this becomes a tech. that
just explains that you don't have to do anything (for scripting
that is not essential to operation)
... GL 1.1 L1 SC 5 - currently no techs
yh: can map the same techs as for SC 3
wc: tech for meta refresh for web cams - traffic cams for ex.
mc: next - GL1.1 L3 SC1
... gen tech about what captions are and audio desc. are and
how to provide
... next GL 2.1 L1 SC1
... correct - GL 1.2 L1 SC1
wc: need to provide information
about caption formats
... that can be used - can link to other sites with that
info
yh: can store user settings in a cookie - this can apply to several diff SC
gv: provide a script button to access the captions
<wendy> wac: link to flash techniques
<ben> should also include discussion of open captioned format alongside non-captioned
<Michael> relates to question about relationship of general to tech specific techs
<Andi> scribe: Andi
mc: needs techniques that describe audio descriptions and how to create them
yh: techniques for switching audio tracks
<wendy> ADI guidelines for AD - http://adinternational.org/ADIguidelines.html
wc: ADI guidelines for AD - http://adinternational.org/ADIguidelines.html
yh: techniques for time shifting?
gv: techniques are the same - maybe we should talk about streaming captions
wc: most RT captions are a service that you can buy
<wendy> e.g. http://www.captioncolorado.com/
gv: could talk about captions
being provided in a separate window
... could also talk about open captions
<wendy> internet text streaming - http://www.captioncolorado.com/products/internet.html
wc: e.g. http://www.captioncolorado.com/
... internet text streaming - http://www.captioncolorado.com/products/internet.html
<scribe> ACTION: Wendy to provide some links from her research [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
<gregg> link to stable site that provides description of different options for real time captioning
yh: techniques for providing sign language video
<wendy> e.g., vcom 3d http://www.vcom3d.com/
mc: techniques on picture in
picture display
... SMIL techniques for sizing and positionin window
<gregg> present in separate window
wc: most of issues came from
RNID
... suggests getting RNID to provide techniques
yh: techniques for where to position
<wendy> http://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/tutorials/qtxad.html http://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/tutorials/qtxad.html
<wendy> Creating Extended Audio Descriptions in QuickTime
mc: same as audio descriptions, SMIL 2 will have a way to pause video
wc: NCAM has lots of resources
<wendy> AD tutorials: http://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/strategies/XAD.php
gv: techniques are the same
wc: John Slatin's performance where the audio description was scripted but done "live"
gv: radio describes - that's why
lots of people listen to the radio and watch at the same
time
... problems with feasibility
mc: have lots of HTML techniques
but no general techniques
... CSS techniques around positioning, styling
bg: scripting - create elements when creating new content
yh: relationship between caption/audio description and multimedia - does that need to go here too?
yh: style switcher
... asterisk near required field instead of just making it
red
mc: emphasis element and coloring rather than just using span with color
yh: color for headings
mc: script technique that is cautionary - don't just change the color unless also setting some structural attribute
bg: it's an issue when creating elements
bc: encoding color so that it can be programmatically determined
bg: have to specify it a certain way so that ATs can pick it up
yh: techniques for indicating correct and incorrect
dm: wrote general techniques for forms
yh: can you map one technique to two SC?
mc: yes
gv: choosing technologies whose players expose text attributes to AT
yh: not using CSS as the only way to indicate a blockquote
mc: similar to L1 techniques
bg: should be some script techniques but can't think of any at the moment
as: tabindex? may be covered by 2.4
yh: negative CSS technique - don't put stuff out of sequence
mc: css techniques for affecting the layout, when that fails, the order should still be relevant
yh/mc: sequences between delivery units
bg: script to provide style switcher
yh: css techniques for background
images and colors
... css technique for layered divs
bg: script techniques for hiding them
gv: should have only general techniques
mc: may still be good to have html and css techniques but suggest looking at general techniques also
GL 1.4 L2 SC2
gv: if no tools a lot of this is pretty tricky
yh: link to tools
mc: tools only check - how do we tell authors what they have to do
gv: stem is the main part of the character, not the serif
mc: general techniques
bg: script technique with a button
yh: cookie technique that remembers settings
mc: html technique with bgsound
gv: cookie technique with a script
bc: html techniques around autoplay
gv: expect to lose some of these provisions when we get the final numbers
mc: css and html techniques for using foreground and background colors
mc/gv: mostly in general techniques
<Michael> make sure scripted colour changes to create violations that weren't there before
yh: script technique - moving text must have sufficient contrast with all the places it can move to
gv: general techniques - strategy for measuring
<David> I could also send an CD
<David> bye
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.126 of Date: 2005/05/16 16:49:48 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Andi Inferring ScribeNick: Andi Found Scribe: becky Inferring ScribeNick: Becky Found Scribe: Andi Inferring ScribeNick: Andi Scribes: Andi, becky ScribeNicks: Andi, Becky Default Present: David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Becky_Gibson, Chris_Ridpath, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Christophe_Strobbe, Ben, Wendy, Yvette, Andi, Bengt_Farre, Matt, Tim_Boland, Alex_Li, Mike_Barta, Joe_Clark Present: David_MacDonald Michael_Cooper Becky_Gibson Chris_Ridpath Gregg_Vanderheiden Christophe_Strobbe Ben Wendy Yvette Andi Bengt_Farre Matt Tim_Boland Alex_Li Mike_Barta Joe_Clark Regrets: Roberto_Castaldo Sebastiano_Nutarelli Luca_Mascaro WATANABE_Takayuki Makoto_UEKI Loretta_Guarino_Reid Roberto_Ellero Roberto_Scano Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0996.html Got date from IRC log name: 30 Jun 2005 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html People with action items: wendy WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]