IRC log of dawg on 2005-05-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:07 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:31:07 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc

14:31:12 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

14:31:12 [Zakim]

sorry, kendall, I don't know what conference this is

14:31:23 [ericP]

zakim, this id dawg

14:31:23 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'this id dawg', ericP

14:31:26 [AndyS_scribe]

zakim, this will be DAWG

14:31:26 [Zakim]

ok, AndyS_scribe, I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM already started

14:31:27 [ericP]

zakim, this is dawg

14:31:28 [Zakim]

ericP, this was already SW_DAWG()10:30AM

14:31:29 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM

14:31:45 [AndyS_scribe]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:31:45 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Kevin, ??P3, Kendall_Clark

14:31:50 [howardk]

hmmm, zakim doesn't like me this morning ...

14:31:50 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

14:31:50 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

14:32:04 [AndyS_scribe]

zakim, ??p3 is AndyS_scribe

14:32:04 [Zakim]

+AndyS_scribe; got it

14:32:18 [howardk]

rude guy, he's hung up on me twice

14:32:34 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:32:55 [ericP]

zakim, who is here?

14:32:55 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Kevin, AndyS_scribe, Kendall_Clark (muted), EricP

14:32:56 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, KevinW, howardk, kendall, DanC_lap, AndyS_scribe, SteveH, ericP, AndyS, DanC

14:33:21 [Zakim]

+HowardK

14:33:31 [Zakim]

+??P7

14:33:40 [SteveH]

Zakim, ??P7 is SteveH

14:33:40 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:33:50 [SteveH]

Zakim, mute me

14:33:50 [Zakim]

SteveH should now be muted

14:34:02 [ericP]

PathH will be late

14:34:47 [Zakim]

+??P5

14:35:01 [ericP]

regrets: Jeen Broekstra, Jos Deroo, Yoshio FUKUSHIGE

14:35:20 [AndyS_scribe]

regrets: Jeen

14:38:37 [AndyS_scribe]

?P5 is Souripriya Das (Oracle) aka Souri

14:39:05 [ericP]

Zakim, ??P5 is Souri

14:39:05 [Zakim]

+Souri; got it

14:39:24 [ericP]

1. Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

14:39:29 [ericP]

1. Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

14:39:38 [AndyS_scribe]

(Eric chairs for a while)

14:39:38 [kendall]

hmm, i guess i didn't need to illegally park in front of my building to make the start of the telcon! :>

14:39:42 [ericP]

agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

14:39:53 [ericP]

zakim, who i shere?

14:39:53 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, ericP.

14:39:56 [ericP]

zakim, who is here?

14:39:56 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Kevin, AndyS_scribe, Kendall_Clark (muted), EricP, HowardK, SteveH (muted), Souri

14:39:58 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, KevinW, howardk, kendall, AndyS_scribe, SteveH, ericP, AndyS, DanC

14:40:34 [AndyS_scribe]

(pat will be late)

14:40:50 [ericP]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0248.html

14:41:04 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

14:41:04 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

14:41:21 [AndyS_scribe]

Acceptd minutes from last time

14:41:30 [AndyS_scribe]

Next meeting: May 31

14:41:37 [ericP]

zakim, please pick a scribe

14:41:37 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose EricP

14:41:46 [DanC_lap]

DanC_lap has joined #dawg

14:41:53 [AndyS_scribe]

Scribe next time: EricP

14:41:59 [DanC_lap]

DanC_lap has joined #dawg

14:42:25 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION AndyS: get tests/data/sort/query-sort-1.rq marked approved

14:42:26 [AndyS_scribe]

DONE

14:42:33 [kendall]

DanC_lap: yes, Eric is handling it.

14:42:37 [ericP]

agdenda + publishing results format, protocol

14:42:43 [ericP]

agenda + publishing results format, protocol

14:42:46 [AndyS_scribe]

conintuned:

14:42:47 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page

14:42:47 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve

14:42:47 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple

14:42:47 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG Note (no

14:42:47 [AndyS_scribe]

deadline/urgency)

14:42:49 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to

14:42:51 [AndyS_scribe]

valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery)

14:42:59 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 2

14:42:59 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "publishing results format, protocol" taken up [from ericP]

14:43:40 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION EricP: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/ 1.25

14:43:46 [AndyS_scribe]

CONTINUED

14:43:47 [ericP]

agenda + issue fromUnionQuery

14:43:50 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 3

14:43:50 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "issue fromUnionQuery" taken up [from ericP]

14:45:38 [AndyS_scribe]

(back 2 - protocol to be published?)

14:45:49 [AndyS_scribe]

Neither published - in progress

14:47:07 [kendall]

here's the uri: http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-protocol-20050523/

14:47:14 [AndyS_scribe]

(agendum 3 restart)

14:47:18 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION KendallC: reword "the protocol must be preferred by a SPARQL query service", perhaps w.r.t. the WSDL interface

14:47:29 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: EricP to try out the "2 list of URIs" datasets design from <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0440.html>

14:47:55 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION 8: done

14:48:11 [Zakim]

+[UMD]

14:48:17 [AndyS_scribe]

continued: action 9

14:48:26 [AndyS_scribe]

(Bijan calls in)

14:48:52 [ericP]

agenda + issue: valueTesting

14:48:55 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 4

14:48:55 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "issue: valueTesting" taken up [from ericP]

14:48:58 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: DanC to send comment on non-use of <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-datatypes> to schema comments list

14:49:14 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: EricP to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe progress: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#extendedType-eq-pass

14:49:14 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: DaveB to work with EricP to clarify valueTesting proposal

14:49:39 [AndyS_scribe]

Progress : action 12 but continues

14:50:04 [SteveH]

yes

14:50:12 [AndyS_scribe]

Progress : action 13 - Eric wants to get help from SteveH - Steve agrees

14:50:30 [ericP]

agenda + some comments

14:50:42 [ericP]

agenda + issue wsdlAbstractProtocol

14:50:49 [AndyS_scribe]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0154.html

14:50:55 [AndyS_scribe]

Comment from TBL about str()

14:50:56 [ericP]

agenda + punctuationSyntax

14:51:06 [SteveH]

DanC_lap, just pasted the zakim number into the "dial" tab

14:51:07 [ericP]

agenda + Last Call schedule

14:51:09 [DanC_lap]

(I talked with PatH last week about how to reply to timbl)

14:51:13 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

14:51:13 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

14:51:27 [DanC_lap]

yeah, I get connected to zakim, Steve; then what? how do I enter the conference code?

14:51:31 [bijan]

bijan has joined #dawg

14:51:39 [AndyS_scribe]

Part of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0255.html

14:51:49 [SteveH]

DanC_lap, click on the phone pad picture

14:51:59 [SteveH]

(in Dial tab)

14:52:33 [DanC_lap]

I tried the numbers in the dial tab; they don't seem to work

14:52:40 [SteveH]

WFM

14:53:00 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 5

14:53:00 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "some comments" taken up [from ericP]

14:53:02 [SteveH]

sorry, dont know skype that well

14:53:30 [patH]

patH has joined #dawg

14:53:35 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION DanC: noodle on uri() and str() issue from email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0239.html

14:53:38 [AndyS_scribe]

Continues

14:53:52 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: DanC to rethink the use/mention issue w.r.t Tim's email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0154.html

14:53:54 [patH]

wave with cute smile

14:53:58 [AndyS_scribe]

Continues

14:54:17 [Zakim]

+PatH

14:54:31 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 6

14:54:31 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "issue wsdlAbstractProtocol" taken up [from ericP]

14:54:39 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION DanC: try splitting SparqlQuery interface into SparqlGraph and SparqlBindings

14:54:45 [AndyS_scribe]

CONTINUES

14:55:12 [AndyS_scribe]

ACTION: KendallC to ask WSD WG for clarification about HTTP binding of WSDL2, esp lists of URIs

14:55:34 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

14:55:34 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

14:55:57 [ericP]

i probably did something else to deserve it

14:55:58 [bijan]

PatH, have you seen http://www.inf.unibz.it/%7Efranconi/papers/ppswr-04.pdf

14:56:18 [kendall]

ACTION: KendallC to finish HTTP bindings.

14:56:24 [AndyS_scribe]

Withdraw 17

14:56:33 [AndyS_scribe]

Replaced by 18

14:57:29 [DanC_lap]

er... ericp, is this meeting a whole series of noops? I wonder if there's anything we can close today

14:57:47 [patH]

bijan, no I hadnt. But I have now.

14:58:17 [AndyS_scribe]

Discussion on SOAP with a string for query => has two possibel result forms

14:58:22 [AndyS_scribe]

graph or XML result set

14:58:42 [AndyS_scribe]

KC : can have schema choice on out message

14:59:11 [AndyS_scribe]

KC : has tested this

14:59:29 [AndyS_scribe]

(relex? XML Schema?)

14:59:35 [AndyS_scribe]

(relaxNG? XML Schema?)

14:59:42 [kendall]

I haven't really "tested" it, I just believe that it's correct.

14:59:47 [AndyS_scribe]

Ack

14:59:51 [kendall]

:>

15:00:19 [AndyS_scribe]

RelaxNG => an extension

15:00:46 [AndyS_scribe]

Esp rel to RDF/XML in SOAP results

15:01:24 [AndyS_scribe]

Trying to avoid doing with an "any tag" description

15:01:40 [ericP]

DanC, would you like take over?

15:02:00 [kendall]

I don't feel like this is really an issue, personally.

15:02:11 [AndyS_scribe]

Bijan: Key: introducing arbitrary namespaces but keeping some control

15:04:14 [AndyS_scribe]

KC: proof by deployment wanted

15:05:02 [AndyS_scribe]

KC: does not want to split the interface : simplifies one part but makes other parts more complex

15:05:08 [patH]

subjunctively like?

15:05:15 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 7

15:05:15 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "punctuationSyntax" taken up [from ericP]

15:06:18 [kendall]

DanC_lap: I was just trying to speak for you; basically, that issue wsdlAbstractProtocol should remain open till we've seen a proposal from you about splitting query (or you withdraw that action); and that we want to see a service deploy named-graph-uri. FYI.

15:06:51 [AndyS_scribe]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0255.html

15:07:08 [bijan]

bijan has left #dawg

15:07:19 [bijan]

bijan has joined #dawg

15:08:33 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

15:08:35 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

15:11:21 [AndyS_scribe]

DanC (relayed from this AM): Formal vote next week for punctuation - people should raise explicit point (pref with test cases)

15:11:32 [AndyS_scribe]

Eric asks about yacc-ness

15:12:02 [AndyS_scribe]

Andy says: please would people with yacc-based systems check

15:12:26 [AndyS_scribe]

No issues raised for the record at this meeting

15:13:20 [AndyS_scribe]

Souri: do we support queries with indeterminate # edges on transitive properties

15:13:42 [AndyS_scribe]

Bijan: can augment the KBase

15:14:17 [AndyS_scribe]

Souri: so it is outside of SPARQL.

15:14:33 [AndyS_scribe]

Bijan: some QLs do it but lets fix as-is for now

15:14:57 [AndyS_scribe]

Sourei: Q: multiple reps of the same value: all same in SPARQL?

15:15:23 [AndyS_scribe]

Souri:example: triples with int "10" and int "010"

15:15:37 [AndyS_scribe]

Are these the same?

15:15:54 [AndyS_scribe]

in a triple match

15:17:58 [AndyS_scribe]

Eric: see section 11. pls

15:19:45 [ericP]

Andy expressed DanC's desire to close the puntuationSyntax next week. Please review message 0255 and bring up any other issues that impact the grammar ASAP.

15:19:56 [AndyS_scribe]

Andy: also d-entailment and graph match

15:20:42 [ericP]

dacn, -5 lines

15:20:49 [ericP]

danc, rather

15:20:58 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 8

15:20:58 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "Last Call schedule" taken up [from ericP]

15:21:12 [DanC_lap]

well, yes, I'm inclined to close punctuationSyntax next week. Maybe you could do it this week?

15:21:36 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

15:21:36 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

15:21:53 [AndyS_scribe]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0219.html

15:22:00 [DanC_lap]

mr EricP-chair, care to straw poll? how many are ready to close punctuationSyntax today?

15:22:09 [ericP]

danc, will do

15:22:38 [kendall]

hmm, chairing by proxy kinda sucks. :>

15:22:40 [AndyS_scribe]

AndyS: propose LC candidate to WG May 31 of the QL

15:23:45 [AndyS_scribe]

KC: Candidate protocol draft 2 weeks after QL.

15:24:50 [Zakim]

-SteveH

15:25:21 [Zakim]

+??P0

15:25:29 [SteveH]

Zakim, ??P0 is SteveH

15:25:29 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

15:27:38 [ericP]

zakim, take up agendum 7

15:27:38 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "punctuationSyntax" taken up [from ericP]

15:27:59 [AndyS_scribe]

Discuss of things done rel to Dand (may 09) msg

15:28:03 [AndyS_scribe]

Discuss of things done rel to DanC (may 09) msg

15:28:57 [ericP]

+4

15:29:03 [AndyS_scribe]

Straw poll on syntax

15:29:18 [SteveH]

i abstain

15:29:25 [kendall]

2 abstains

15:29:31 [AndyS_scribe]

4 abstains

15:29:34 [ericP]

4 would abstains

15:29:56 [SteveH]

yes, decide next week is fine

15:30:46 [AndyS_scribe]

Andy to Kendall: which issues are most critical to you?

15:31:24 [ericP]

my priority would be yacc-ability

15:31:32 [AndyS_scribe]

need a yacc person

15:31:46 [AndyS_scribe]

AndyS will rerun the LA check

15:32:03 [AndyS_scribe]

Proposed to adjourn

15:32:15 [AndyS_scribe]

seconded

15:32:18 [AndyS_scribe]

ADJOURN

15:32:24 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

15:32:48 [Zakim]

-HowardK

15:33:42 [Zakim]

-Kevin

15:33:57 [KevinW]

KevinW has left #DAWG

15:36:07 [DanC_]

DanC_ has joined #dawg

15:41:26 [DanC_]

Zakim, make logs world-access

15:41:27 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'make logs world-access', DanC_

15:41:35 [DanC_]

Zakim, make logs public-access

15:41:35 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'make logs public-access', DanC_

15:42:01 [patH]

logs/log ??

15:44:05 [AndyS_scribe]

rrsagent?

15:48:20 [ericP]

path, example of SQL translation in http://www.w3.org/2004/10/18-RDF-WWW2005/

15:50:02 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2003/11/01-RDF-SQL-tmp/notes

15:50:46 [DanC_]

DanC_ has joined #dawg

15:50:59 [DanC_]

DanC_ has joined #dawg

15:55:43 [SteveH]

Ive tried prodding nmg, but hes too busy

15:56:18 [SteveH]

I still want it to come out, and am motivated

15:59:21 [Zakim]

-PatH

16:01:15 [Zakim]

-AndyS_scribe

16:02:19 [Zakim]

-Souri

16:02:20 [Zakim]

-SteveH

16:02:27 [Zakim]

-EricP

16:02:37 [ericP]

zakim, who is here?

16:02:37 [Zakim]

On the phone I see [UMD]

16:02:38 [Zakim]

On IRC I see DanC_AMS, bijan, RRSAgent, Zakim, SteveH, ericP, AndyS, DanC

16:02:57 [ericP]

bijan? left it on speaker phone?

16:03:06 [ericP]

zakim, please disconnect [UMD]

16:03:06 [Zakim]

[UMD] is being disconnected

16:03:07 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

16:03:08 [Zakim]

Attendees were Kevin, Kendall_Clark, AndyS_scribe, EricP, HowardK, SteveH, Souri, [UMD], PatH

16:07:17 [SteveH]

ericP, im off home, im see you tommorow, for whatever it was i said I'd do :)

16:07:26 [SteveH]

SteveH has left #dawg

16:11:59 [ericP]

tx

16:12:04 [ericP]

(steve)

16:12:39 [bijan]

bijan has left #dawg

16:16:42 [DanC_lap]

DanC_lap has joined #dawg

16:19:41 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please leave

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

I see 18 open action items:

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to get tests/data/sort/query-sort-1.rq marked approved [1]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-42-25

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page [2]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-42-47

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [3]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-42-47-1

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [4]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-42-47-2

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG Note (no [5]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-42-47-3

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to [6]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-42-49

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/ 1.25 [7]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-43-40

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to reword "the protocol must be preferred by a SPARQL query service", perhaps w.r.t. the WSDL interface [8]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-47-18

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to try out the "2 list of URIs" datasets design from <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0440.html> [9]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-47-29

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: 8 to done [10]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-47-55

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC to send comment on non-use of <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-datatypes> to schema comments list [11]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-48-58

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe progress: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#extendedType-eq-pass [12]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-49-14

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DaveB to work with EricP to clarify valueTesting proposal [13]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-49-14-1

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC to noodle on uri() and str() issue from email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0239.html [14]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-53-35

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC to rethink the use/mention issue w.r.t Tim's email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005AprJun/0154.html [15]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-53-52

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC to try splitting SparqlQuery interface into SparqlGraph and SparqlBindings [16]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-54-39

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to ask WSD WG for clarification about HTTP binding of WSDL2, esp lists of URIs [17]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-55-12

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to finish HTTP bindings. [18]

16:19:41 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/24-dawg-irc#T14-56-18

16:19:50 [AndyS]

zakim, please leave

16:19:50 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg