W3C . DAWG

RDF Data Access Weekly Teleconference

5 Apr 2005

See also: IRC log, proposed agenda

Attendees

Present
Yoshio, DanC, Kevin, HowardK, PatH, DaveB, Kendall_Clark, JosD, SteveH

Jeen Broekstra (sender of comments such as more on optionals) participated as an observer.

Regrets
AndyS, EricP, BryanT
Chair
DanC
Scribe
KendallC

Contents


Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

<kendall> minutes approved from last week's meeting

next meeting 12 Apr, DaveB to scribe, risks noted

continued without (much) discussion:

<scribe> ACTION: KendallC to work out remaining details in sparqlx.{rnc,xsd,rng}: expression syntax, order-by stuff continues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action08]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] KendallC to incorporate EricP's privacy text, salting to taste [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action15]

issue: valueTesting

<scribe> [DONE] ACTION EricP: to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or others)

-> 11th hour datatype testing proposal

<kendall> some discussion of some of ericp valuetesting tests...

<DaveB> looking at SPARQL-DT-1-alg.sh

<kendall> HowardK been following along a bit on Eric's design

<kendall> (discussion of eric's sparql-dt-0)

<kendall> XQuery makes 42 int and 42 float True (I think? It promotes the int to float, apparently)

<SteveH> I think this test says that xsd:int(42.0) = 42 is true

<kendall> discussion of 11.1.1 of rq23

<DaveB> it's refering to http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#mapping

<Zakim> Yoshio, you wanted to ask if a != b is True if no assertion on a being equal to b or not is provided

<Yoshio> re: Eric's design, a != b should be True

<Yoshio> following fron link on "!" leads to XQuery fn:not, which would say so

<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to give the "datatype swamp" speech again

<kendall> danc tries to recruit someone to co-present Eric's design w/ Eric

<kendall> ah, Tuscany...

<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to work with EricP to clarify valueTesting proposal ETA 2 weeks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

<DaveB> EricP's proposal seems not to refer to http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/#promotion Type Promotion of numeric types, which seems relevant. and has a typo or two re the 2nd test. [this is for my information]

<scribe> ACTION: HowardK to seek clarification on valueTesting w.r.t. differenced from XQuery [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

issue: sort

<scribe> ACTION: PatH to review sort design [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action10]

not started...

<kendall> iirc, Kowari's itQL has sort

<kendall> Jeen says something about comparing blank nodes and literals (?)

Jeen: SerQL doesn't does offset/limit but not SORT, yet; due to requests, we're starting to have a stab at it

<kendall> er, iTQL, I should say.

<kendall> Versa also has sort.

<kendall> how few is "widespread", I wonder

Jos: ORDER BY doesn't make sense with CONSTRUCT

<DaveB> [['Using ORDER BY on a solution sequence for a result form other than SELECT has no direct effect because only SELECT returns a sequence of results, not an RDF graph]]

<kendall> order by only applies to SELECt -- we think!

"Using ORDER BY on a solution sequence for a result form other than SELECT has no direct effect because only SELECT returns a sequence of results, not an RDF graph. However, in combination with LIMIT and OFFSET, it can be used to return partial results."

<kendall> So, another proposal discussed where the prime designer or proponent isn't here. :>

<kendall> tricky

<SteveH> Yoshio, there isn;t a way to do that currently as far as I know

<bijanp> (Not quite OT, but related, may be helpful, i'm unsure how reliable or good, but: http://www.cs.umd.edu/Library/TRs/CS-TR-4611/CS-TR-4611.ps )

<Yoshio> Hmm, we do need for that function to show users, for example, the total number of documents hit

OPTIONS: 2 questions: 1 prefer to adopt this sort design (or something close) vs prefer to postpone. 2: probably object to postpone / object to this design or something close

pref this sort design: 1 1 1

pref to postpone: 1 1 1 1

oppose postpone: 1

oppose sort: 1

<kendall> KevinW says that some of the complexity in the sort design is linked to complexity in other issues

<Yoshio> in sorting we have an arbitrary ordering for the last resort, though

<kendall> UMD cares more about limit with "next 10" than we do about sort

<kendall> fwiw

<DaveB> ref http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-dawg-uc/#u2.19

<kendall> fine-grained parsing of use cases that weren't intended to read that way

(limit/offset seems like a protocol thing)

<kendall> (er, that's off the record, I should have said!)

<kendall> (limit & offset were originally in teh protocol, but i removed them at andy's urging, as I recall)

PatH: limit/offset could be done with protocol tokens

<bijan> limit is in the language now, see 10.1

yes, bijan... we're discussing whether that's the design we prefer

<Zakim> Yoshio, you wanted to ask if there is a way (or need for tha way) to get just the number of the solutions and to say a project next to me deals with patent search, where user

<bijan> Ah, ok.

<howardk> for those interested, new version of XQuery WD is available at http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/

<Yoshio> to ask if "03"^^xsd:integer < "1"^^xsd:integer (lexical form rule 4.1)

<DaveB> I think, yes it says that in the rq23

<Yoshio> Hmm, horrible, confusing at least

<DaveB> actually I can't tell since those rules may/only apply if operator:< can't be used

punctuationSyntax

<kendall> There is reification syntax in rq23

<kendall> SteveH: the value of the current syntax is that it's "like" Turtle; so adding new stuff reduces that value

<DaveB> I'd agree with steve, jos

<scribe> ACTION: DanC to propose to close punctuationSyntax (again) sans <<reifiction shorthand>> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action03]

SPARQL QL publication candidate

<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] EricP to notify the WG of editors draft (or change of plans) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action13]

poll: PROPOSED: to publish SPARQL QL editor's draft 1.290 as a W3C WD, with editorial and technical TODOs highlighted, with status ala "the WG is preparing for last call; while we do our internal review, the community is welcome to comment too."

<kendall> Yoshio, KevinW, HowardK, PatH, Kendall, DaveB, SteveH -- support pub'ing now

<DaveB> I found 2.4, 2.6 confusing in parts. 5.4, 9 defns baffled me. 2.7 & lots need section nos.

<kendall> Jeen does too

<kendall> JosD does by implication :>

<kendall> no one seems opposed to publishing it, more relevantly

<DaveB> (in typo land; 3.1 uri syntax wrong; 4.1 empty; 6.2 dc namespace urls wrong)

After discussion of if/how to say "we're getting close to last call", DanC is inclined to do another round internally first.

<scribe> ACTION: PatH to internal review of rq23, starting monday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

<DaveB> reviewing just defns? or all?

KendallC offers to copy-edit, noting it will use all his WG time

<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to review rq23 editor's draft this week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action05]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] AndyS to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action11]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] DaveB to consider dots in qnames, report on impact on turtle [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action12]

<scribe> ACTION: [DROPPED] DanC to review editors draft (delivered 31 Mar) by 5 Mar [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action14]

issue wsdlAbstractProtocol

-> protocol update

KC: I split the WSDL into sparql-protocol-query.wsdl and sparql-protocol-graph.wsdl

DC is interested in feedback from BT, AFS. KC is confident he can get it.

<scribe> ACTION: KendallC to own wsdlAbstractProtocol (based on WSDL description added to protocol to editor's draft). continues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

SPARQL Variable Results format

<kendall> Has a new name...

DB: I changed the title, since it's more than variable results...

<kendall> what's the new name?

<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer continues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

Test Suite Maintenance

<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve continues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

<scribe> ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG Note (no deadline/urgency) [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action19]

<scribe> ACTION: SteveH to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named graphs [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action20]

<scribe> ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action21]

<scribe> ACTION: AndyS to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action22]

<scribe> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action23]

<scribe> ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-dawg-minutes.html#action26]

ADJOURN.


KendallC and DanC for the DAWG $Date: 2005/04/07 13:24:42 $
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.122