15:04:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swbp
15:05:18 <DavidW> Zakim and RRSAgent are now active; please try again
15:05:30 <DavidW> zakim, who is here?
15:05:30 <Zakim> sorry, DavidW, I don't know what conference this is
15:05:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Fabien, ChrisW, aharth, pepper, DavidW, aliman, JeffP, Benjamin, Tbaker, PhilT
15:05:53 <Benjamin> Just to say I don't have telephone access today, so I'll only be on IRC
15:05:57 <DavidW> zakim, list conferences
15:05:57 <Zakim> I see HTML_XForms()10:00AM, SW_BPD()10:00AM, W3C_AC(*Boston)8:30AM active
15:05:59 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are Team_Global(review)8:00AM, SVG_WG()9:00AM, MM_MMI(environ)10:00AM
15:06:09 <DavidW> zakim, this is SW_BPD
15:06:09 <Zakim> ok, DavidW; that matches SW_BPD()10:00AM
15:06:14 <DavidW> zakim, who is here?
15:06:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_Wood, Phil_Tetlow, ??P2, ??P3, Tom_Baker (muted), ??P5, +47.23.23.aaaa, Evan_Wallace, [Sophia]
15:06:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Fabien, ChrisW, aharth, pepper, DavidW, aliman, JeffP, Benjamin, Tbaker, PhilT
15:06:22 <Zakim> +Alistair_Miles (was ??P5)
15:06:30 <Zakim> +Fabien_Gandon (was [Sophia])
15:06:40 <Zakim> +Andreas_Harth (was ??P3)
15:06:42 <DavidW> zakim, David_Wood is DavidW
15:06:46 <Zakim> +DavidW; got it
15:07:08 <DavidW> zakim, who is talking
15:07:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', DavidW
15:07:11 <DavidW> zakim, who is talking?
15:07:17 <Zakim> +??P18
15:07:20 <Tbaker> who is making that rattling noise?
15:07:22 <Zakim> DavidW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andreas_Harth (4%), Alistair_Miles (39%), +47.23.23.aaaa (94%)
15:07:36 <DavidW> zakim, mute aaaa
15:07:36 <Zakim> +47.23.23.aaaa should now be muted
15:07:39 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #swbp
15:07:58 <pepper> Zakim, +47.23.23.aaaa is Steve_Pepper
15:07:58 <Zakim> +Steve_Pepper; got it
15:08:24 <aliman> Zakim, mute alistair
15:08:24 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should now be muted
15:08:25 <Zakim> +Natasha_Noy
15:08:33 <Natasha> Natasha has joined #swbp
15:08:37 <ChrisW> david, did you see my previous comment in irc?
15:08:43 <DavidW> Steve:  I had to mute you
15:09:09 <pepper> Why's that?
15:09:42 <Zakim> +Marco
15:09:53 <DavidW> Someone was using a concrete saw in your office
15:09:53 <aharth> zakim, mute aharth
15:09:53 <Zakim> sorry, aharth, I do not see a party named 'aharth'
15:10:01 <aharth> zakim, mute Andreas_Harth
15:10:01 <Zakim> Andreas_Harth should now be muted
15:10:02 <DavidW> ChrisW,  Please repost.  Thanks
15:10:24 <aliman> Zakim, unmute alistair
15:10:25 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted
15:10:43 <ChrisW> I am at a meeting now - I can joint the telecon at any time, but not for the whole time.
15:10:55 <ChrisW> If someone can let me know on IRC when I should join, that would help
15:11:02 <DavidW> ChrisW,  OK
15:11:08 <DavidW> zakim, who is talking?
15:11:19 <Zakim> DavidW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidW (19%), ??P2 (6%), Marco (14%)
15:11:35 <MIkeU> MIkeU has joined #swbp
15:12:10 <ekw> ekw has joined #swbp
15:12:13 <aliman_scribe> regrets: ben a, libby, deb, chris (1/2 here), jeremy
15:12:23 <MIkeU> Apologies: our phone system has been flaky for last few days. I cannot get an outside line from my office. It may come back, so I will keep trying.
15:12:51 <aliman_scribe> ACTION ITEM REVIEW
15:13:01 <aliman_scribe> ACTION guus to note on numeric ranges after the xml datatypes TF has
15:13:01 <aliman_scribe>    finished
15:13:42 <Fabien> zakim, who is talking?
15:13:53 <Zakim> Fabien, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidW (35%), Alistair_Miles (15%), ??P18 (10%), Marco (29%)
15:13:59 <DavidW> Please get off speaker phones:  We would like to clear the echo from the phone.  Thanks
15:14:09 <aliman_scribe> continued
15:14:17 <aliman_scribe> ACTION guus send jeremy pointer about numeric ranges and XMLS
15:14:19 <aliman_scribe> continues
15:14:28 <aliman_scribe> ACTION: Brian and DanBri need to talk about what need to do for
15:14:28 <aliman_scribe> Wordnet document to be good enough
15:14:44 <aliman_scribe> RSSAgent, ?
15:14:56 <aliman_scribe> RSSAgent withdraw 1
15:15:43 <aliman_scribe> RSSAgent, drop action 1
15:16:00 <aliman_scribe> RRSAgent, drop action 1
15:16:15 <aliman_scribe> ACTION Brian and DanBri need to talk about what need to do for
15:16:16 <aliman_scribe> Wordnet document to be good enough
15:16:18 <aliman_scribe> continue
15:16:27 <aliman_scribe> ACTION VM TF to compile list of sample vocabs for the note
15:16:29 <aliman_scribe> completed
15:16:39 <aliman_scribe> ACTION VM TF with help from Guus to find thesaurus like example and
15:16:39 <aliman_scribe>    high end ontologies to section 3
15:16:52 <ChrisW> please note, deb requested two actions be added - I do not see them
15:16:54 <aliman_scribe> dropped
15:17:05 <aliman_scribe> ACTION David to contact Eric Miller re his interest in joining the 
15:17:05 <aliman_scribe> RDFTM TF
15:17:11 <aliman_scribe> completed
15:17:20 <aliman_scribe> (awaiting response from em)
15:17:29 <aliman_scribe> ACTION Jeremy Clarify which parts of UML docs HP is most interested
15:17:29 <aliman_scribe>    in reviewing
15:17:31 <aliman_scribe> continued
15:17:43 <aliman_scribe> ACTION david put software engineering task force on agenda for two 
15:17:43 <aliman_scribe> weeks time
15:17:44 <aliman_scribe> complete
15:17:54 <aliman_scribe> ACTION david to propose a telecon schedule for the new year
15:17:56 <aliman_scribe> complete
15:18:06 <aliman_scribe> ACTION guus to introduce new members from rdftm task force to the wg
15:18:39 <pepper> Zakim, unmute pepper
15:18:39 <Zakim> sorry, pepper, I do not see a party named 'pepper'
15:18:40 <aliman_scribe> fabio: from uni of bologna, part of RDFTM TF 
15:18:51 <pepper> Zakim, unmute Steve_Pepper
15:18:51 <Zakim> Steve_Pepper should no longer be muted
15:18:56 <aliman_scribe> fabio: work is beginning on this TF ...
15:19:16 <aliman_scribe> ACTION: fabio & new RDFTM TF members to post a short biog to SWBP list
15:19:20 <ChrisW> Please note deb's request: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0006.html
15:19:28 <DavidW> q?
15:19:32 <ChrisW> q+
15:19:39 <ChrisW> Please note deb's request: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0006.html
15:19:44 <DavidW> ack ChrisW
15:20:17 <aliman_scribe> (Guus action complete)
15:20:28 <aliman_scribe> ACTION ralph contact steve pemberton to clarify html wg's position on
15:20:28 <aliman_scribe>    inclusion of rdf/a in their last call wd.
15:20:30 <aliman_scribe> continue
15:20:47 <aliman_scribe> ACTION Ralph take up TAG-SWBP agenda CG tomorrow
15:20:56 <aliman_scribe> continue
15:20:57 <FV> FV has joined #swbp
15:21:05 <aliman_scribe> ACTION steve email 13250 to the WG
15:21:07 <aliman_scribe> complete
15:21:42 <pepper> Zakim, mute Steve_Pepper
15:21:42 <Zakim> Steve_Pepper should now be muted
15:21:43 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 3. Liaison issues
15:21:52 <aliman_scribe> 3.2 Planning of ODM review activity
15:22:00 <aliman_scribe> david: put this off to next telecon
15:22:28 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 4. SE TF
15:22:28 <DavidW> ChrisW,  We are discussing the SE TF: Please join
15:22:36 <aliman_scribe> Phil: Jeff has proposed SE TF
15:22:38 <aliman_scribe> ...
15:22:45 <Zakim> +Chris_Welty
15:23:04 <DavidW> zakim, who is talking?
15:23:16 <aliman_scribe> Phil: need to discuss knowledge engineering things in wider context of software engineering ...
15:23:16 <Zakim> DavidW, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alistair_Miles (91%), ??P18 (61%)
15:23:26 <aliman_scribe> establish some kind of collective list ...
15:23:41 <aliman_scribe> send strong message to SE industry that semantic web is highly applicable ...
15:23:49 <aliman_scribe> and that W3C is listening. ...
15:24:02 <aliman_scribe> second objective ...
15:24:18 <aliman_scribe> (missed that)
15:24:33 <aliman_scribe> phil: would like to gain acceptance from the WG that a TF can be established
15:24:34 <ChrisW> aliman, do you have a noisy keyboard?
15:24:44 <aliman_scribe> Zakim, mute alistait
15:24:44 <Zakim> sorry, aliman_scribe, I do not see a party named 'alistait'
15:24:47 <aliman_scribe> Zakim, mute alistair
15:24:47 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should now be muted
15:25:05 <aliman_scribe> phil: want to specifically look at application of semweb technologies in wider context
15:25:20 <aliman_scribe> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2004Dec/0005.html
15:25:35 <aliman_scribe> phil: ontology driven SE/architectures is exciting field
15:25:37 <aliman_scribe> ...
15:25:47 <aliman_scribe> emerging from model-driven architecture ....
15:26:10 <aliman_scribe> IBM looking at semantic enrichment of UML ...
15:26:27 <aliman_scribe> also potential for self-organisaing systems based on semweb technologies ...
15:26:36 <aliman_scribe> also application of semweb to support UIs
15:26:52 <aliman_scribe> david: open to comments?
15:27:14 <aliman_scribe> david: excited to see this, positive step ...
15:27:24 <aliman_scribe> but concerned that the scope is too broad ...
15:27:37 <aliman_scribe> also concerned that we don't have the effort, lots of other things on our plate ....
15:27:57 <aliman_scribe> at the f2f we talked about completing some TFs in the first qrater of 2005 ....
15:28:08 <aliman_scribe> i.e. make sure that we deliver. ...
15:28:18 <aliman_scribe> (on our current commitments)
15:28:37 <aliman_scribe> There will be drive from the chairs to complete current TFs ...
15:28:57 <aliman_scribe> Secondly, this TF has some real heavyweights involved ...
15:29:02 <aliman_scribe> including Phil & Jeff ...
15:29:22 <aliman_scribe> issue of scope ... phil says stear clear of refs to UML ...
15:29:47 <aliman_scribe> but would like to see some specific refs being made to UML ... would be very useful to have UML mapping ...
15:29:52 <aliman_scribe> Phil: not in scope ...
15:30:02 <aliman_scribe> scope may appear wide ...
15:30:20 <aliman_scribe> if terms of reference are published, are they fixed? ...
15:30:32 <aliman_scribe> Also timing is right to send out a signal to wider community ...
15:30:52 <aliman_scribe> encouraging to contemplate semweb ...
15:31:03 <aliman_scribe> so just a single W3C published doc would be a great step ...
15:31:06 <Zakim> +??P24
15:31:12 <Zakim> +Mike_Uschold (was ??P24)
15:31:16 <aliman_scribe> but don't want to get into fine details ...
15:31:25 <aliman_scribe> just want to register high level ideas for debate ...
15:31:36 <aliman_scribe> i.e. first deliverable could be a list of exciting potential ideas ...
15:31:55 <aliman_scribe> because around this list would be proactive debate, which would stimulate energy ...
15:32:02 <aliman_scribe> both in semweb and in SE comms ...
15:32:30 <aliman_scribe> am finding it very easy to get high level support for this, i.e. momentum is there.
15:32:36 <MIkeU> I'm now on the telecon.
15:32:57 <aliman_scribe> David: agree that timing is good, from tucana point of view we have many customers interested in ontology driven SE ...
15:33:04 <aliman_scribe> trying to do this with current toolkits ...
15:33:11 <aliman_scribe> and would love some guidance from W3C ...
15:33:28 <aliman_scribe> so see the value of a public list of validated ideas, to be turned into a note ...
15:33:38 <aliman_scribe> don't know about taking it to rec ...
15:33:51 <aliman_scribe> phil: agrees, actually above my expectation. ...
15:34:02 <aliman_scribe> happy to modify terms of reference to describe this deliverable ...
15:34:22 <aliman_scribe> main focus is a net to catch some ideas, forum for discussion, and important to do this right now. ...
15:34:38 <aliman_scribe> there are some technologies going orthogonal to W3C ...
15:34:50 <aliman_scribe> if we let these orgs go with this, this is a bad thing for our communities ..
15:35:13 <Zakim> -Chris_Welty
15:35:23 <aliman_scribe> concept of ontology-driven software engineering ... publishing this phrase on W3C TF list would generate lots ...
15:35:30 <aliman_scribe> of interest alone ...
15:35:49 <aliman_scribe> also 'ontology driven architectures' (did I get that right?)
15:36:04 <aliman_scribe> mikeU: likes what's been said ...
15:36:20 <aliman_scribe> lots of work has been done and we should pull it all together.
15:36:41 <aliman_scribe> phil: can we get permission of WG to establish a TF, with caveat that objective is produce a work in progress document ...
15:36:56 <aliman_scribe> and set a date for the terms of reference to be finalised>
15:36:58 <aliman_scribe> ?
15:37:15 <aliman_scribe> david: address an issue from (???)
15:37:29 <aliman_scribe> phil: preference is to make all discussions around SETF public ...
15:37:33 <Christo> Christo has joined #swbp
15:37:44 <aliman_scribe> as open as possible.
15:37:58 <aliman_scribe> david: W3C can provide a publicly archived mailing list for just this TF ...
15:38:09 <aliman_scribe> also welcome to converse on swbp list.
15:38:17 <aliman_scribe> phil: takes offer for separate mailing list.
15:38:40 <aliman_scribe> ACTION: ralph to set up a SETF mailing list, public archive and accessible
15:38:48 <aliman_scribe> phil: also wants a wiki
15:38:59 <aliman_scribe> david: we can give you a wiki too.
15:39:24 <aliman_scribe> phil: if we do set up a wiki, is that W3C internal, or completely open?
15:39:34 <aliman_scribe> david: defers to ralph's guidance on that.
15:39:57 <aliman_scribe> ACTION: phil to look into setting up a wiki for SETF
15:40:24 <aliman_scribe> phil: can we assume that it's OK to set up SETF?
15:40:30 <aliman_scribe> david: any objections to SETF?
15:40:43 <aliman_scribe> chair sees no objection
15:40:59 <aliman_scribe> PROPOSED: david proposes to stand SETF
15:41:06 <aliman_scribe> Second: mikeU
15:41:20 <aliman_scribe> Phil: thanks the WG for support ...
15:41:51 <aliman_scribe> ACTION: Phil to refine the TF terms of reference and publish as a TF description
15:42:09 <aliman_scribe> David: add me to the list of SETF members
15:42:24 <aliman_scribe> MikeU: can someone summarise what was accepted in terms of ref?
15:42:50 <aliman_scribe> Phil: we have provisionally agrred toerms of ref, but the scope may be too broad, needs refinement
15:43:07 <Zakim> + +44.127.987.aabb
15:43:10 <aliman_scribe> david: but consensus to publish these as a TF descriptiion and stand up the SETF
15:43:27 <DavidW> zakim, who is talking?
15:43:31 <aliman_scribe> ACTION: Phil to contact all SETF interested parties not on the telecon
15:43:38 <Zakim> DavidW, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: DavidW (61%), Phil_Tetlow (4%), Mike_Uschold (19%), +44.127.987.aabb (75%)
15:43:50 <aliman_scribe> Zakim, aabb is jeremy
15:43:50 <Zakim> +jeremy; got it
15:44:11 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 3.1 Review of SPARQL
15:44:21 <aliman_scribe> jeremy: interaction of sparql and datatyping work ...
15:44:35 <aliman_scribe> to extend the language they are using various functions defined by XQUERY &c. ...
15:44:44 <aliman_scribe> point of interaction in that using the XPATH model ...
15:44:47 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #swbp
15:44:51 <aliman_scribe> which has a view on how to process type literals ...
15:45:14 <aliman_scribe> so relevant to the datatyping work.
15:45:20 <aliman_scribe> david: jjc has 3 points ...
15:45:36 <aliman_scribe> Zakim, unmute alistair
15:45:36 <Zakim> Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted
15:46:03 <aliman_scribe> 2 - presupposing that RDF datatypes are XML schema dataypes?
15:46:15 <aliman_scribe> jjc: using the XQuery fuinctions does make this presupposition
15:46:23 <aliman_scribe> david: we need to make this explicit
15:48:16 <aliman_scribe> david: we need to incl;ude the DAWG in review of XMLSCH TF note.
15:48:34 <aliman_scribe> TF REVIEWS
15:48:45 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC:5.4 XML Schema datatypes (Jeremey)
15:49:01 <aliman_scribe> jeremy: some progress, need to finish bit on user defined datatypes ...
15:49:14 <aliman_scribe> also jeff to add sommething on hoe DL reasoners interact with this.
15:49:30 <aliman_scribe> ... also evan has suggested to split the doc ...
15:49:49 <aliman_scribe> but I'm opposed, unless sections progress at different speeds.
15:50:03 <aliman_scribe> jeff: good idea to keep as one doc ...
15:50:25 <aliman_scribe> because if split into two documents, need to reiterate relationship between RDF & XML datatypes. ...
15:50:39 <aliman_scribe> jeremy: unless strong reason to split, better as one for now.
15:50:51 <Zakim> -jeremy
15:51:04 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 5.1 OEP (Deb)
15:51:21 <aliman_scribe> Natasha: no comments for now.  
15:51:30 <aliman_scribe> ... Chris to give an update?
15:51:34 <ChrisW> joining
15:52:02 <Zakim> +Chris_Welty
15:52:12 <aliman_scribe> david: deb posted message yesterday ...
15:52:29 <aliman_scribe> units & measures has an author ...
15:52:43 <aliman_scribe> OWL time waiting for response from chairs ...
15:53:21 <aliman_scribe> units& measures is wiating on getting lisa kendle as invited expert.
15:53:57 <aliman_scribe> chris: at the f2f deb remembers ralph taking action to contact elisa
15:54:05 <aliman_scribe> but no recorded action.
15:54:30 <aliman_scribe> david: as soon as ralph on line next week we'll clear this up.
15:54:40 <aliman_scribe> chris: also any comment son the web page for the OEP TF?
15:55:07 <aliman_scribe> david: sorry about TF waiting on chairs and invited epxerts ...
15:55:31 <aliman_scribe> will try to clean up both issues ASAP.
15:55:48 <Zakim> -Chris_Welty
15:56:05 <aliman_scribe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Nov/0093.html
15:56:57 <DavidW> Alistair:  Have taken in SKOS Core.  Want to publish guide.
15:57:31 <ChrisW> is telecon times going to be discussed 2day?  i don't see it on agenda
15:57:35 <DavidW> Alistair:  Want to publish guide in a way readable by non-RDF people.  Too difficult.
15:58:09 <DavidW> Publish a RDF-aware version, and another doc aimed at non-RDF people
15:58:27 <DavidW> Therefore, the guide could get done shortly
15:58:40 <DavidW> Will post to list for feedback.
15:59:00 <DavidW> Chair:  Thinks that is an excellent idea.  Would like to see guide published.
15:59:45 <DavidW> Guide and namespace doc (SKOS Core Vocabulary Spec) to be published as first WD shortly.
16:01:33 <DavidW> ACTION: David to help Alistair to pbulish SKOS Core first WD
16:01:38 <ChrisW> is telecon times going to be discussed 2day?  i don't see it on agenda
16:02:18 <DavidW> ChrisW,  We will cover in AOB
16:02:43 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 5.3 WordNet (Aldo)
16:02:55 <aliman_scribe> david: still missing some TF updates on the archive ...
16:03:09 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 5.5 Vocabulary management 
16:03:23 <aliman_scribe> Tom: dec 6 deadline is slipping a little ...
16:03:31 <aliman_scribe> have been in touch with authors ...
16:03:50 <aliman_scribe> JimH is still williing to write intro in Jan when we have the technical bit sin place ...
16:04:01 <aliman_scribe> hve been in touch with prism folks about the prism bit ...
16:04:33 <aliman_scribe> other big piece is ralph's bit on sorting out which W3C specs are most salient and current for VM ...
16:04:56 <aliman_scribe> one important function for this note is as up to date and annotated selction of references ...
16:05:15 <aliman_scribe> there are so many notes and specs that touch on the topic, so important to get that piece in place ...
16:05:41 <aliman_scribe> so if we get the text about DC, FOAF, SKOS, PRISM, W3C specs ...
16:05:56 <aliman_scribe> enough to produce a plausible draft for further discussion in jan ...
16:06:10 <aliman_scribe> so all contributions by end of next week please ...
16:06:19 <aliman_scribe> so we can have a draft before the hols.
16:06:38 <MIkeU> MIkeU has joined #swbp
16:06:42 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 5.6 RDF-in-HTML
16:07:14 <aliman_scribe> david: comments on RDF/A?
16:07:38 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 5.7 ADTF (Libby)
16:07:50 <Fabien> http://esw.w3.org/mt/esw/archives/cat_applications_and_demos.html
16:07:57 <aliman_scribe> Fabien: felix etnerd description of semweb challenges to the ADTF repos ...
16:08:21 <aliman_scribe> what about the best way to publish and collect the demos?
16:08:24 <pepper> Zakim, unmute pepper
16:08:24 <Zakim> sorry, pepper, I do not see a party named 'pepper'
16:08:27 <aliman_scribe> still continuing with the blog.
16:08:31 <pepper> Zakim, unmute Steve_Pepper
16:08:31 <Zakim> Steve_Pepper should no longer be muted
16:08:39 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: RDFTM (Steve)
16:08:58 <pepper> http://tesi.fabio.web.cs.unibo.it/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/RDFTM/
16:09:04 <aliman_scribe> steve: RDFTM TF  ahs started, have created a wiki at uni of bologna ...
16:09:12 <FV> FV has joined #swbp
16:09:22 <aliman_scribe> asking TF members to check out existing material linked from wiki and to provide feedback on ...
16:09:37 <aliman_scribe> test cases, bibliography, survey. 
16:09:49 <pepper> Fabio Vitali and Valentina Prescutti have volunteered to edit the first deliverable (Survey of existing proposals)
16:09:57 <Zakim> +Chris_Welty
16:10:17 <aliman_scribe> steve: also ralph has some docs to post on W3C website ...
16:11:33 <aliman_scribe> david: also spoke to nikita ??? from deutsch bank?
16:11:43 <aliman_scribe> he has some concerns about technical mapping issues ...
16:11:43 <pepper> nikita ogievetsky
16:12:06 <aliman_scribe> he would like to join the TF, are looking into getting deutsch bank to join W3C ...
16:12:21 <aliman_scribe> am pressing nikita for test case to express his concern.
16:12:36 <aliman_scribe> pepper: nikita's proposal is one of the ones in consideration.
16:15:02 <pepper> Zakim, mute Steve_Pepper
16:15:02 <Zakim> Steve_Pepper should now be muted
16:17:42 <FV> Got to go now. See you next time. Ciao
16:17:48 <Zakim> -??P18
16:17:59 <aliman_scribe> phil: have approached cliff jones of newcastle uni as involved in SETF ...
16:18:21 <aliman_scribe> have taken action to contact eric & ralph re getting uni of newcastle to join W3C
16:18:28 <pepper> Zakim, unmute Steve_Pepper
16:18:28 <Zakim> Steve_Pepper should no longer be muted
16:18:49 <pepper> Zakim, mute Steve_Pepper
16:18:49 <Zakim> Steve_Pepper should now be muted
16:19:00 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: 5.9 Tutorial Page (TomA)
16:19:15 <aliman_scribe> david: no updates, any suggestion ping tom directly
16:19:28 <aliman_scribe> TOPIC: Telecon times
16:19:37 <aliman_scribe> David: proposal made to list ...
16:19:55 <aliman_scribe> to have a single telecon time as either 1800 or 1900 UTC every seconed thursday ...
16:20:03 <aliman_scribe> Guus prefers 1800
16:20:09 <aliman_scribe> David OK with either
16:20:18 <aliman_scribe> any strong objections?
16:20:21 <Benjamin> I prefer also as early as poss
16:20:22 <Tbaker> either one is okay with me
16:20:42 <aliman_scribe> Is there enough contention to jsutify a straw poll?
16:20:46 <JeffP> I prefer the earlier one
16:21:04 <aliman_scribe> I prefer earlier also
16:21:15 <aliman_scribe> david: any strong objections to 1800?
16:21:32 <pepper> Zakim, unmute Steve_Pepper
16:21:32 <Zakim> Steve_Pepper should no longer be muted
16:21:59 <aliman_scribe> pepper: east asia possible involvement in WG ... e.g. korea ...
16:22:17 <aliman_scribe> this time prohibitve for peole from that part of the world
16:22:30 <aliman_scribe> can we change around every half year?
16:22:44 <Fabien> I prefer earlier also (15 UTC for instance)
16:22:46 <aliman_scribe> david: we have one year left to go for this WG. ...
16:23:03 <aliman_scribe> and unfortunately most participants from Europe & US ...
16:23:25 <aliman_scribe> we also have many other modes of involvement other than telecon ...
16:23:53 <aliman_scribe> encourage those unable to attend telecons to participate through other means e.g. mail, wikis
16:24:10 <aliman_scribe> ... IRC .. e.g. we have folks from Oz involved.
16:24:42 <aliman_scribe> ... so we cannot satisfy everybody, no matter what we pick ...
16:24:47 <aliman_scribe> .
16:24:56 <aliman_scribe> pepper: alternative is to rotate.
16:25:38 <aliman_scribe> david: done this for last 6 moths ... but confusion has decreased attendance ...
16:25:51 <aliman_scribe> chris: objected to alternation ...
16:26:18 <aliman_scribe> the earlier time just didn't work for folk in asia ...
16:26:32 <aliman_scribe> would like to see strong participation from folks beofre moving telecon times to accomodate.
16:26:52 <aliman_scribe> david: W3C goes a long way to provide multiple way sof participating.
16:27:17 <pepper> Zakim, mute Steve_Pepper
16:27:17 <Zakim> Steve_Pepper should now be muted
16:27:32 <aliman_scribe> david: let's watch the list for comments ...
16:28:07 <aliman_scribe> so far we have no reason not to plan for 1800 UTC ... need to confirm with Guus and others on the list. ...
16:28:31 <aliman_scribe> next telecon is 1900 UTC December 16
16:28:41 <aliman_scribe> use this telecon to catch all comments 
16:29:06 <aliman_scribe> other offline comments suggest 1800UTC looks OK
16:29:46 <aliman_scribe> PROPOSE: david proposes to move telecon times for 2005 at 1800UTC on alternating thursdays
16:29:58 <aliman_scribe> chris seconds
16:30:08 <aliman_scribe> no objections
16:30:16 <aliman_scribe> Proposal moved.
16:30:26 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
16:30:30 <Zakim> -Tom_Baker
16:30:31 <Zakim> -Andreas_Harth
16:30:32 <Zakim> -Phil_Tetlow
16:30:32 <Zakim> -Marco
16:30:33 <Zakim> -DavidW
16:30:34 <Zakim> -Fabien_Gandon
16:30:35 <Zakim> -Mike_Uschold
16:30:36 <Zakim> -Steve_Pepper
16:30:37 <Zakim> -Alistair_Miles
16:30:39 <Zakim> -Natasha_Noy
16:30:40 <Benjamin> bye all :)
16:30:41 <Zakim> -Chris_Welty
16:30:43 <Zakim> -??P2
16:30:44 <aliman_scribe> RRS Agent bye
16:30:45 <Zakim> SW_BPD()10:00AM has ended
16:30:45 <pepper> bye
16:30:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Phil_Tetlow, Tom_Baker, Evan_Wallace, Alistair_Miles, Fabien_Gandon, Andreas_Harth, DavidW, Steve_Pepper, Natasha_Noy, Marco, Chris_Welty, Mike_Uschold,
16:30:50 <Zakim> ... +44.127.987.aabb, jeremy
16:30:53 <aliman_scribe> RRSAgent bye
16:30:55 <Fabien> bye
16:31:00 <aliman_scribe> RRSAgent, bye
16:31:00 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items:
16:31:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: fabio & new RDFTM TF members to post a short biog to SWBP list [2]
16:31:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-19-16
16:31:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ralph to set up a SETF mailing list, public archive and accessible [3]
16:31:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-38-40
16:31:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: phil to look into setting up a wiki for SETF [4]
16:31:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-39-57
16:31:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Phil to refine the TF terms of reference and publish as a TF description [5]
16:31:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-41-51
16:31:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Phil to contact all SETF interested parties not on the telecon [6]
16:31:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T15-43-31
16:31:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David to help Alistair to pbulish SKOS Core first WD [7]
16:31:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/12/02-swbp-irc#T16-01-33