IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-11-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:56:04 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:58:49 [ChrisR]
- ChrisR has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:01:17 [Zakim]
- WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started
- 15:01:20 [Zakim]
- +Wendy
- 15:01:27 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Cooper
- 15:01:42 [wendy]
- wendy has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:01:51 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:01:51 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Wendy, Michael_Cooper
- 15:02:27 [Zakim]
- +??P28
- 15:02:44 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P28 is Chris
- 15:02:44 [Zakim]
- +Chris; got it
- 15:02:46 [Zakim]
- +Tim_Boland
- 15:03:38 [ken]
- ken has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:03:44 [Zakim]
- +Ken_Kipnes
- 15:08:58 [Michael]
- Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Checklists and Techniques: http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-tech-req/
- 15:12:56 [wendy]
- Requirements for UAAG 1.0 test suite http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/TS/reqs-20020208.html (not sure the latest)
- 15:13:47 [AliG]
- AliG has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:14:14 [wendy]
- Earlier draft of Tim's document: Accessibility Testing Technical Documentation (Draft) - 18 Mar 03 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2003AprJun/att-0019/wai-test11.htm
- 15:14:54 [AliG]
- Having a problems with my phone will try to join the call in a few minutes.
- 15:16:41 [wendy]
- AliG? what is the error message that you hear?
- 15:17:44 [AliG]
- None, the Skype software I am using cannot connect to its proxy server.
- 15:19:28 [wendy]
- sounds like it's a skype issue. Chris had trouble using skype as well.
- 15:19:36 [Zakim]
- +??P36
- 15:19:55 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P36 is Lisa_Seeman
- 15:19:55 [Zakim]
- +Lisa_Seeman; got it
- 15:19:57 [DonFEvans]
- DonFEvans has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:20:26 [Zakim]
- +??P37
- 15:20:40 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P37 is Alistair
- 15:20:40 [Zakim]
- +Alistair; got it
- 15:24:59 [wendy]
- tb test suites for best practice? break into best practice and conformance.
- 15:25:06 [wendy]
- mc perhaps best practice better accounted in examples
- 15:25:32 [wendy]
- mc examples should be the same throughout the document, become more detailed further into materials you get
- 15:25:40 [wendy]
- tb test suites designed to demonstrate conformance
- 15:25:43 [wendy]
- ag yes
- 15:25:59 [wendy]
- ag should be used to determine if the tasks have been achieved.
- 15:26:16 [wendy]
- ag not all tests are automatable
- 15:28:47 [wendy]
- ls instead of a test with a pass/fail, if they were educational tools. "do you have less than 3 words? if so, check that alt-text is in fact short and not adding unnecessary, additional time to surf the page" then would be less worried about them being water tight in every situation.
- 15:29:27 [Zakim]
- -Alistair
- 15:29:28 [wendy]
- cr when writing them, my focus was testing conformance and that rationale would be in other documents. wasn't thinking about best practices.
- 15:30:54 [Zakim]
- +??P37
- 15:31:57 [Michael]
- need to present this idea to the Thursday call to make sure we all agree
- 15:32:05 [Michael]
- (wac)
- 15:32:28 [wendy]
- wac speculating that next public drafts are in february/march. will be pushing for 1st public WDs of checklists and test suites.
- 15:37:40 [Michael]
- wac overview of process to get to Recommendation
- 15:37:49 [Michael]
- wac test suites don't count as implementation experience
- 15:38:24 [Michael]
- wac evaluation tools that meet test suite could count, but that wasn't originally planned, instead we just expected to have Web sites that meet WCAG
- 15:38:43 [Michael]
- wac but so many types of sites, would we have to have examples of each type, and different languages etc.?
- 15:42:27 [Michael]
- mc do we need test suites for more technologies than HTML to fit requirements?
- 15:42:53 [Michael]
- ag need to prove backwards compatibility w/ WCAG 1.0
- 15:43:28 [Michael]
- ag including css, html, image, etc., anything covered in WCAG 1.0
- 15:44:01 [Michael]
- wac test cases specific to WCAG 1.0 to demonstrate changes, or test cases that help determine if WCAG 1.0 conformant site passes 2.0?
- 15:44:33 [Michael]
- ag select test cases so we don't need for technologies like PDF that weren't in WCAG 1.0 scope
- 15:46:07 [wendy]
- mc w/out a script test suite, how validate that wcag 2.0 applies to dynamic technologies?
- 15:46:15 [wendy]
- what about DOM test suite?
- 15:47:15 [wendy]
- http://www.w3.org/QA/TheMatrix
- 15:48:28 [Zakim]
- -Tim_Boland
- 15:50:29 [Michael]
- http://www.w3.org/DOM/Test
- 15:52:06 [wendy]
- wac how create a test suite for scripting w/out requiring usability testing?
- 15:52:27 [wendy]
- mc are test suites defining what evaluation tools should be looking for or are they modeling what wcag 2.0 conformant code should look like or ??
- 15:52:40 [wendy]
- ag shouldn't they test whether someone has implemented the code properly?
- 15:53:13 [wendy]
- ag techniques show best practice in hope that people start using.
- 15:54:40 [wendy]
- ag test files must support tasks
- 15:54:51 [wendy]
- mc saw last week that test files are more detailed than techniques
- 15:55:06 [wendy]
- ag that's the overlap between the top-down and bottom-up approach
- 15:56:06 [wendy]
- ag remove limiting # of chars from test file (b/c of the overlap between top-down and bottom-up approaches)
- 15:57:30 [wendy]
- kk tools have 3 levels: errors, manual, etc.
- 15:57:46 [wendy]
- ag need to idnetify the type ofimage
- 15:58:05 [wendy]
- mc length can be a clue, to trigger a closer look.
- 15:58:42 [wendy]
- mc trigger closer look when using the eval tool not be a required test for the tool developer to implmeent
- 15:59:11 [wendy]
- ls we're making classifications for other parts of the page, why not images as well?
- 16:00:38 [wendy]
- ag my comments based on work from TF3 in euroaccessibility
- 16:01:21 [AliG]
- take a look at http://www.accessinmind.com/supportEAM/ImageTech.html (its a very rough draft)...
- 16:04:43 [wendy]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#text-equiv
- 16:06:20 [AliG]
- http://www.accessinmind.com/supportEAM/WCAG1Tasks.html
- 16:16:35 [Michael]
- wac add section to requirements for test suites, and another section for relation among techniques, checklists, test suites
- 16:17:24 [Michael]
- wac other W3C requirements documents have test suite requirements, we can use as models
- 16:17:32 [Michael]
- e.g., UAAG
- 16:17:59 [Michael]
- ag difference between methodology & test suite
- 16:21:55 [Michael]
- wac/ag: test suite tasks for evaluators, techniques tasks for authors
- 16:22:13 [Michael]
- wac open questions:
- 16:22:28 [Michael]
- relationships between documents
- 16:23:08 [wendy]
- audience of different resources
- 16:23:33 [wendy]
- checklist as set of tasks? if a dev task and need more resources, go to techniques. if eval, to test suite.
- 16:26:10 [wendy]
- action: michael, ben, chris, gregg, alistair, wendy work on draft of requirements for techs, checklists, and test suite
- 16:26:27 [wendy]
- action: jenae, tim, ken, etc. thoroughly review draft once it is sent to the list
- 16:27:48 [wendy]
- perhaps section 6: test suite and 7 relationship between techniques, checklists, and test suites
- 16:27:54 [wendy]
- audience of checklists vs test suites
- 16:29:11 [wendy]
- action: michael, chris, alistair meet friday to begin discussion
- 16:30:10 [Michael]
- wac potential concern about use of term "test suite" because of what we mean vs. what other W3C specs mean
- 16:30:40 [wendy]
- RRSAgent, make log world
- 16:31:50 [Zakim]
- -Lisa_Seeman
- 16:36:06 [wendy]
- ag some of the tasks have both evaluation and repair info in the same task. e.g., task should be "dont' use font element" repair is "use css instead"
- 16:37:22 [wendy]
- action: ag, wac, bc to get alistair set up and using bugzilla
- 16:38:22 [Zakim]
- -Alistair_Garrison
- 16:38:23 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 16:38:23 [Zakim]
- -Ken_Kipnes
- 16:38:24 [Zakim]
- -Wendy
- 16:38:25 [Zakim]
- -Chris
- 16:38:26 [ChrisR]
- ChrisR has left #wai-wcag
- 16:38:26 [Zakim]
- WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
- 16:38:27 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Wendy, Michael_Cooper, Chris, Tim_Boland, Ken_Kipnes, Lisa_Seeman, Alistair, Alistair_Garrison
- 16:38:32 [Michael]
- rrsagent, bye
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- I see 4 open action items:
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: michael, ben, chris, gregg, alistair, wendy work on draft of requirements for techs, checklists, and test suite [1]
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/24-wai-wcag-irc#T16-26-10
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jenae, tim, ken, etc. thoroughly review draft once it is sent to the list [2]
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/24-wai-wcag-irc#T16-26-27
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: michael, chris, alistair meet friday to begin discussion [3]
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/24-wai-wcag-irc#T16-29-11
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: ag, wac, bc to get alistair set up and using bugzilla [4]
- 16:38:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/11/24-wai-wcag-irc#T16-37-22