IRC log of swbptm on 2004-11-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:58:43 [RRSAgent]

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11:59:14 [pepper]

http://www.ontopia.net/tmp/RDFTM-TF-DoW.html

11:59:32 [aliman_]

first draft of work from SP

11:59:36 [pepper]

http://tesi.fabio.web.cs.unibo.it/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/Progetti/DescriptionOfWork

12:00:11 [pepper]

modified draft on WIKI at University of Bologna (unibo)

12:01:43 [aliman_]

aliman asks for explanation of sp's tf approach from first principles

12:02:04 [DavidW]

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12:02:06 [aliman_]

DavidW: can you also specifically address the corpus of work in this area already

12:02:21 [aliman_]

All agree state of the art is a good place to start

12:03:40 [aliman_]

some refs from sp's presentation:

12:03:42 [aliman_]

Many people have tried this approach

12:03:42 [aliman_]

RDF and TopicMaps: An Exercise in Convergence, Graham Moore, 2001

12:03:42 [aliman_]

XML Topic Maps through RDF glasses, Nikita Ogievetsky, 2001

12:03:42 [aliman_]

On the integration of Topic Map data and RDF data, Martin Lacher and Stefan Decker, 2001

12:03:42 [aliman_]

An RDF Schema for Topic Maps, Lars Marius Garshol, 2002

12:04:21 [aliman_]

DavidW: cf model-level mapping vs. vocabulary level mapping

12:04:35 [aliman_]

... model level mapping insufficient?

12:04:49 [aliman_]

pepper: yes ... e.g. graham moore implemented vocab level approach

12:05:02 [aliman_]

similar to ontopia & uni of bologna

12:05:35 [aliman_]

pepper: any movement to consensus is toward vocab level mapping

12:05:38 [aliman_]

DavidW: agenda?

12:05:48 [aliman_]

pepper: draft description of work to take back to WG

12:05:56 [aliman_]

DavidW: goal is a TF description

12:06:20 [pepper]

http://www.ontopia.net/tmp/RDFTM-TF-DoW.html

12:06:26 [pepper]

first draft of DoW

12:06:30 [pepper]

http://tesi.fabio.web.cs.unibo.it/cgi-bin/twiki/bin/view/Progetti/DescriptionOfWork

12:06:40 [pepper]

amended draft (WIKI page at UniBo)

12:08:55 [aliman_]

group reviews priomary goals for TF ...

12:09:55 [aliman_]

DavidW: introduce some wording ... 'produce documents describing procedue/facilitating mapping' rather than

12:10:03 [aliman_]

... creating some system as such.

12:10:42 [pepper]

The goal of this TF is to produce documents that facilitate mapping RDF to Topic Maps and vice versa

12:11:02 [aliman_]

From pepper's presentation:

12:11:04 [aliman_]

Primary goal

12:11:04 [aliman_]

To allow Topic Maps to be regarded as RDF data

12:11:04 [aliman_]

To allow RDF data to be regarded as Topic Maps

12:11:04 [aliman_]

Consider RDFS and OWL to the extent that this facilitates basic interoperability

12:12:01 [DavidW]

Have a look at the PORT TF's description: http://www.w3.org/2004/03/thes-tf/mission

12:12:15 [DavidW]

"Document strategies for representing Thesaurus-like content using RDF/OWL"

12:12:26 [DavidW]

"Provide links to tools, applications, papers on this topic."

12:12:39 [DavidW]

"Encourage dialog between RDF and Semantic Web developers and members of the digital library community"

12:12:54 [DavidW]

long term goals

12:12:54 [DavidW]

A W3C Note on thesaurus and related techniques for the Semantic Web(?) detailed scope to be discussed

12:12:55 [DavidW]

An RDF/OWL vocabulary for representing thesauri structures ('broader term' etc) within RDF

12:14:31 [DavidW]

I propose that we modify the PORT TF description to suit the TM/RDF description

12:14:59 [aliman_]

pepper: ?? 'Document strategies for representing topic maps using RDF/OWL'

12:16:31 [aliman_]

DavidW: use port TF template as a baseline?

12:20:04 [aliman_]

DavidW: starting at top of the TF description ...

12:20:07 [aliman_]

name?

12:20:23 [aliman_]

Current name: RDF/Topic Maps Task Force

12:21:49 [libby]

al: "rdf/topic maps peace and unity taskforce" ;)

12:23:59 [aliman_]

pepper: RDF/Topic Maps Interoperability Task Force?

12:24:36 [libby]

RATIT

12:25:26 [aliman_]

pepper: remove the slash?

12:25:35 [pepper]

abbreviation: RDFTM-I

12:25:39 [pepper]

?

12:26:21 [aliman_]

agreed

12:26:36 [aliman_]

members?

12:27:58 [aliman_]

add alistair, danbri, libby, david ...

12:28:07 [aliman_]

await confirmation from ralph/eric

12:28:30 [aliman_]

pepper: other members?

12:30:36 [aliman_]

add three members from uni bologna

12:30:56 [aliman_]

# Nicola Gessa, University of Bologna

12:30:56 [aliman_]

# Marco Pirruccio, University of Bologna

12:30:56 [aliman_]

# Valentina Presutti, University of Bologna

12:31:24 [aliman_]

pepper: anyone we should approach?

12:31:39 [pepper]

e.g. stefan decker

12:32:45 [aliman_]

pepper: especially want to involve people who did early work.

12:34:17 [libby]

---moving on to objectives

12:34:39 [libby]

david: suggests something similar to the port one

12:35:02 [libby]

pepper: do we want to keep "The objective of this task force is to promote interoperability between the W3C's RDF/OWL family of specifications and the ISO's family of Topic Maps standards." ?

12:35:14 [DavidW]

See the SWBP charter: http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/swbpd-charter#sec12

12:35:19 [DavidW]

for focus areas

12:35:20 [libby]

david: mapping to charter is good

12:39:19 [pepper]

The objective of this task force is to promote interoperability between the W3C's RDF/OWL family of specifications and the ISO's family of Topic Maps standards, in support of the WG's chartered aim [Charter 1.2.4] of providing guidelines for users who want to combine usage of the two paradigms.

12:40:10 [aliman_]

from port:

12:40:12 [aliman_]

This task force of the Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment WG is in support of the group's chartered aim of supporting the deployment in RDF/OWL of thesaurus (and similar) structured vocabularies.

12:40:58 [DavidW]

s/of providing guidelines.*$/of providing guidelines for the relationship between the Semantic Web and Topic Maps/

12:42:10 [DavidW]

s/providing guidelines for/suggesting/

12:42:41 [DavidW]

libby, documenting

12:43:05 [pepper]

This task force of the Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment WG is in support of the group's chartered aim of providing guidelines for users who want to combine usage of the W3C's RDF/OWL family of specifications and the ISO's family of Topic Maps standards.

12:43:32 [DavidW]

good

12:43:40 [libby]

agreed

12:43:43 [aliman_]

+1

12:47:02 [aliman_]

Move on to long term goals ....

12:47:06 [pepper]

<li>Provide links to tools, applications, papers on this topic.</li>

12:47:06 [pepper]

<li>Produce a note describing the current state of the art.</li>

12:48:55 [aliman_]

Al suggests for long term goal conversion of statement from port TF description:

12:49:02 [aliman_]

Provide links to tools, applications, papers on this topic.

12:49:02 [aliman_]

The WG should seek to avoid duplicating existing work, and should provide links to existing efforts, encouraging feedback (via the public-esw-thes@w3.org mailing list) from implementors on the pros- and cons- of the approaches explored.

12:49:11 [aliman_]

Short term objectives:

12:49:27 [aliman_]

pepper: >Produce a note describing the current state of the art.

12:49:37 [aliman_]

DavidW: include notion of pros and cons

12:53:43 [libby]

al: say somethig about how we want to make it as easy as possible to use them

12:54:20 [aliman_]

a goal is to produce guidelines and supporting technologies ...

12:54:24 [aliman_]

fell over

12:54:49 [libby]

pepper: put technologies into 'scope' section

12:54:58 [libby]

(i.e. not TMQL etc)

12:55:37 [libby]

pepper: put low-cost and ease of use... [in approach?]

12:57:21 [aliman_]

we need to express general goal to produce guidelines supporting interoperability ...

12:57:36 [aliman_]

before discussing detailed scope of proposed deliverables

12:59:41 [aliman_]

DavidW: supporting technologies out of scope

13:00:16 [DavidW]

I suggest:

13:01:31 [DavidW]

"Document strategies for representing Topic Maps using RDF/OWL and vice versa. Produce guidelines for transforming an existing Topic Map into an RDF/OWL representation and vice versa."

13:03:41 [pepper]

<h4>Short term objectives</h4>

13:03:41 [pepper]

<p>The short term objectives of the task force are:</p>

13:03:41 [pepper]

<ul>

13:03:41 [pepper]

<li>Produce a note describing the pros and cons of existing approaches.</li>

13:03:41 [pepper]

<li>Document strategies for representing Topic Maps using RDF/OWL and vice versa.</li>

13:03:42 [pepper]

<li>Produce guidelines for transforming an existing Topic Map into an RDF/OWL representation and vice versa.</li>

13:03:45 [pepper]

<li>Provide links to tools, applications, papers on this topic.</li>

13:03:47 [pepper]

</ul>

13:03:49 [pepper]

<h4>Long term objectives</h4>

13:03:51 [pepper]

<p>Longer term objectives of the task force may include:</p>

13:03:53 [pepper]

<ul>

13:03:55 [pepper]

<li>Producing guidelines for using OWL to constrain Topic Maps</li>

13:03:57 [pepper]

<li>Producing guidelines for cross-querying RDF/OWL data and Topic Maps</li>

13:03:59 [pepper]

</ul>

13:14:48 [aliman_]

just to go on record ...

13:15:03 [aliman_]

I mentioned earlier that to state at this stage that to produce a specific vocab ...

13:19:39 [pepper]

The initial focus is on features defined in ISO 13250:2003 Topic

13:19:39 [pepper]

Maps. Other Topic Maps-related standards (such as TMCL and TMQL)

13:19:39 [pepper]

may be considered at a later date.

13:20:19 [pepper]

The initial focus is on features defined in ISO 13250:2003 Topic

13:20:19 [pepper]

Maps. Other Topic Maps-related standards (such as TMCL and TMQL)

13:20:19 [pepper]

may be considered at a later date.

13:20:47 [aliman_]

agreed

13:20:59 [aliman_]

... continuing earlier comment ...

13:21:16 [aliman_]

thing good not to make commitment to extent of new vocab ...

13:21:24 [aliman_]

focus on making the job as easy as poss ...

13:21:31 [aliman_]

develop new vocab only as necessary.

13:23:43 [aliman_]

move on to deliverables:

13:23:43 [pepper]

<li>Note describing the pros and cons of existing approaches.</li>

13:23:43 [pepper]

<li>Guidelines for transforming an existing Topic Map into an RDF/OWL representation and vice versa.</li>

14:23:49 [aliman]

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14:23:58 [aliman]

RRSAgent, make log world-visible

14:24:26 [aliman]

RRSAgent help

14:24:32 [aliman]

RRSAgent, help

14:24:51 [aliman]

RRSAgent, bookmark

14:24:51 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2004/11/02-swbptm-irc#T14-24-51

14:25:16 [libby]

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14:28:44 [pepper]

RDFTM-I

14:38:07 [aliman]

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16:16:02 [pepper]

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