IRC log of wai-wcag on 2004-05-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:49:02 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 17:49:30 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
- 17:50:41 [Al]
- Wendy, things I left for you to do:
- 17:50:50 [Al]
- 1) create the phone-bridge conference
- 17:51:04 [Al]
- 2) [at some point] set log visibility
- 17:51:16 [wendy]
- thx
- 17:51:22 [wendy]
- RRSAgent, make log public-visible
- 17:51:28 [wendy]
- RRSAgent, make log world-visible
- 17:52:09 [wendy]
- zakim, do you have room for 13 at 2:00?
- 17:52:09 [Zakim]
- wendy, 02:00 is in the past
- 17:52:19 [wendy]
- zakim, do you have room for 13 at 14:00?
- 17:52:20 [Zakim]
- ok, wendy; conference Team_(wai-wcag)18:00Z scheduled with code 83261 (TEAM1) at 14:00 for 60 minutes until 1900Z
- 17:54:01 [wendy]
- ok. info sent
- 17:54:07 [wendy]
- zakim, this will be TEAM1
- 17:54:07 [Zakim]
- ok, wendy; I see Team_(wai-wcag)18:00Z scheduled to start in 6 minutes
- 18:00:25 [Zakim]
- Team_(wai-wcag)18:00Z has now started
- 18:00:32 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 18:00:36 [Al]
- Zakim, call AlGilman-home, please
- 18:00:36 [Zakim]
- ok, Al; the call is being made
- 18:00:37 [Zakim]
- -[IBM]
- 18:00:38 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 18:00:39 [Zakim]
- +AlGilman
- 18:00:39 [Zakim]
- +Wendy
- 18:01:37 [Zakim]
- +Dave_Poehlman
- 18:01:51 [Zakim]
- +Matt
- 18:01:55 [MattSEA]
- MattSEA has joined #wai-wcag
- 18:02:00 [Zakim]
- +Greg_Pisocky
- 18:02:56 [chaalsBRS]
- chaalsBRS has joined #wai-wcag
- 18:03:02 [Rich]
- Rich has joined #wai-wcag
- 18:03:09 [Al]
- Zakim, [IBM] is Rich
- 18:03:09 [Zakim]
- +Rich; got it
- 18:04:19 [MarkPilgrim]
- MarkPilgrim has joined #wai-wcag
- 18:04:50 [Al]
- MarkPilgrim, have you had trouble with the dial-in instructions?
- 18:04:58 [Zakim]
- + +1.919.523.aaaa
- 18:05:08 [MarkPilgrim]
- i'm in
- 18:05:14 [Al]
- Zakim, aaaa is MarkPilgrim
- 18:05:14 [Zakim]
- +MarkPilgrim; got it
- 18:06:43 [Zakim]
- + +1.512.335.aabb
- 18:06:56 [wendy]
- zakim, 512 is Barry
- 18:06:56 [Zakim]
- sorry, wendy, I do not recognize a party named '512'
- 18:07:27 [Al]
- Zakim, aabb is Barry
- 18:07:27 [Zakim]
- +Barry; got it
- 18:07:36 [dpoehlman]
- dpoehlman has joined #wai-wcag
- 18:08:38 [Al]
- q+
- 18:09:03 [wendy]
- ack al
- 18:09:34 [wendy]
- al: issues that mark raised are direclty related to roadmap that rich is working on
- 18:10:59 [wendy]
- ag: problems are at UAAG-level because we don't have the binding arch
- 18:11:34 [wendy]
- rs accessibility issues w/gmail?
- 18:11:41 [wendy]
- mp not keyboard-navigable
- 18:11:51 [wendy]
- mp many links are not links.
- 18:11:58 [wendy]
- mp they look like them, but can't tab to them
- 18:12:08 [wendy]
- mp global keyboard shortcuts
- 18:12:49 [wendy]
- mp "gi" moves back to in box. j and k to move to messages. press return to view.
- 18:12:56 [wendy]
- mp fake via javascript
- 18:13:05 [wendy]
- mp up arrow move up a message
- 18:13:16 [wendy]
- mp no way to know currently selected msg.
- 18:13:31 [wendy]
- mp global keyboard shortcuts interfere w/jaws (as primary interface)
- 18:13:36 [wendy]
- rs drag and drop?
- 18:13:44 [wendy]
- mp haven't seen any. keyboard-oriented
- 18:14:18 [wendy]
- dp to turn on global shortcuts, click settings which is simulated
- 18:15:03 [wendy]
- mp part of issue, replace span with a elements
- 18:15:14 [wendy]
- mp other issue is with trapping keyboard events
- 18:15:34 [wendy]
- rs issue w/giving non-active elements focus.
- 18:15:48 [wendy]
- rs this is where classes of elements and extensions will be useful
- 18:18:23 [wendy]
- wcag says: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#keyboard-operation
- 18:18:29 [wendy]
- Guideline 2.1 Make all functionality operable via a keyboard or a keyboard interface.
- 18:18:40 [Rich]
- http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/screen1.html
- 18:19:11 [MarkPilgrim]
- in that screenshot, the following things are keyboard inaccessible:
- 18:19:16 [MarkPilgrim]
- settings link
- 18:19:21 [MarkPilgrim]
- compose mail
- 18:19:29 [MarkPilgrim]
- inbox/starred/sent mail/other folders
- 18:19:35 [wendy]
- bf what about asst. techs
- 18:19:40 [MarkPilgrim]
- select all/read/unread/other options
- 18:19:48 [wendy]
- rs not worry so much about how AT will act, need to make sure arch supports ATs
- 18:20:09 [MarkPilgrim]
- there is a small ">" marker to show the "currently selected message"
- 18:20:20 [MarkPilgrim]
- but a screen reader has no access to that state
- 18:20:24 [wendy]
- rs infrastructure has to be mapped and ATs have to implement
- 18:21:18 [wendy]
- wac new blogger templates?
- 18:21:49 [wendy]
- mp templates are pure css. homepage is well marked up. semantic markup, real lists, etc.
- 18:21:56 [wendy]
- mp beautiful in lynx and works
- 18:22:18 [wendy]
- mp all valid xhtml and css
- 18:22:31 [wendy]
- m3m there is one little bug
- 18:23:08 [wendy]
- rs one way to address in auth tools and wcag, all objects have to be navigable. have to give them focus.
- 18:23:23 [wendy]
- rs until we have the infrastructure, use the a element
- 18:23:48 [wendy]
- rs then have to find appropriate semantics about the element
- 18:24:15 [wendy]
- rs auth tool have to map the existing framework on the platforms. for dynamic content, define what are the events and allow AT to gain access
- 18:24:22 [wendy]
- rs need to know what thte object is
- 18:24:45 [wendy]
- rs autho tool "select from palette of accessible widgets" or prompt author
- 18:24:57 [wendy]
- [but how stored in content if no existing sematnics?]
- 18:25:08 [wendy]
- rs could call it role in wcag
- 18:25:14 [wendy]
- rs "anchor" "list item"
- 18:25:38 [wendy]
- rs semantics ahve to match what doing. e.g., if table used for formatting, not really a table.
- 18:27:31 [Al]
- q+
- 18:28:28 [wendy]
- wac we need a vocabulary for the author to use
- 18:28:36 [wendy]
- ack al
- 18:28:54 [wendy]
- ag the vocabulary is less-well-realized
- 18:28:58 [wendy]
- rs coord w/wcag on vocab
- 18:29:17 [wendy]
- ag existing: class and rel/rev on links
- 18:29:58 [wendy]
- wac can use them, but until common vocab, how will uas and ats use them?
- 18:30:57 [wendy]
- ag look at lisa's suggestion for transcoder. leave house style as is on the web page. in a separate docu (that points into site) can include info to key transformations to reflow interface for a given context
- 18:31:47 [wendy]
- ag don't have to have agreement on terminology as long as people document it
- 18:33:05 [wendy]
- ag convert content to anchor tags and form elements
- 18:38:23 [wendy]
- ag use more semantic classes - next order of business
- 18:38:37 [wendy]
- ag we dn' thave to have final consensus, can be network of repository
- 18:38:47 [wendy]
- ag e.g., map element
- 18:43:38 [wendy]
- ag thre may be techniques that people aren't using yet: e..g. using a form control like an edit box w/static content, make it read-only so that it can get focus.
- 18:44:09 [wendy]
- rs would that confuse people? that the form should be doing something?
- 18:44:14 [wendy]
- ag need to experiment
- 18:45:28 [wendy]
- ag web applications is that they are rich in verbs. the access problems are the verb problems discussed in uaag.
- 18:46:25 [wendy]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#technology-supports-access
- 18:46:33 [wendy]
- Any programmatic user interface components of the content conform to at least the default set of conformance requirements of the UAAG 1.0 at Level A plus the sets of requirements (a) through (j) (below) that apply. If the custom user interfaces cannot be made accessible, an alternative solution is provided that meets WCAG 2.0 (including this provision) to the level claimed. [V]
- 18:46:33 [wendy]
- Requirements (a) through (j)
- 18:46:34 [wendy]
- ...
- 18:49:52 [wendy]
- basic issue boils down to semantics and mapping those to APIs of the UI
- 18:51:13 [wendy]
- rs a - we konw the sematnics. span is not navigable, don't have semantics
- 18:51:35 [wendy]
- rs if use elements that meet criterion, from wcag say "here's how you do it"
- 18:55:10 [Al]
- WAC: review candidate normative provisions (guidelines and success criteria) to see if they are suitably generic to apply across present and future tech
- 18:58:30 [wendy]
- wcag 1.3 talks about programmatic determination of relationships, emphasis, etc
- 18:58:38 [wendy]
- focus - we leave that to user agent
- 18:58:43 [wendy]
- 1.3 does not talk about role
- 18:58:49 [wendy]
- or status
- 18:58:54 [wendy]
- rs author needs to give focus
- 18:59:45 [wendy]
- rs author doesn't have ability to give focus due to design flaw
- 18:59:50 [wendy]
- wac design flaw mostly that of html
- 19:00:29 [wendy]
- wac related to css3 where design navigation flow
- 19:01:06 [wendy]
- ag user's actions on user agent needs to give content focus. author must encode in a way that ua recognize as something to recieve focus
- 19:01:25 [wendy]
- ag writing that into xml - these are in the focusable class
- 19:03:21 [wendy]
- short-term: wac write up presentation for next week
- 19:03:30 [wendy]
- long-term: more joint sessions (atag/uaag/wcag/pf)
- 19:03:56 [wendy]
- ag good to bracket problem with worked examples
- 19:04:08 [dpoehlman]
- dpoehlman has left #wai-wcag
- 19:04:14 [Zakim]
- -Barry
- 19:04:15 [Zakim]
- -Greg_Pisocky
- 19:04:16 [Zakim]
- -Rich
- 19:04:17 [Zakim]
- -Wendy
- 19:04:18 [Zakim]
- -MarkPilgrim
- 19:04:19 [Zakim]
- -Dave_Poehlman
- 19:04:28 [Zakim]
- -Matt
- 19:04:32 [Zakim]
- -AlGilman
- 19:04:33 [Zakim]
- Team_(wai-wcag)18:00Z has ended
- 19:04:34 [Zakim]
- Attendees were AlGilman, Wendy, Dave_Poehlman, Matt, Greg_Pisocky, Rich, +1.919.523.aaaa, MarkPilgrim, +1.512.335.aabb, Barry
- 19:04:52 [MarkPilgrim]
- nice little bot
- 19:05:19 [wendy]
- :)
- 19:05:36 [wendy]
- mark - thanks for the offer to quote/steal from your review. it's a good piece.
- 19:06:44 [MarkPilgrim]
- np
- 19:08:10 [MattSEA]
- MattSEA has left #wai-wcag
- 19:08:49 [wendy]
- zakim, bye
- 19:08:49 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wai-wcag
- 19:08:52 [wendy]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 19:08:52 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items