IRC log of wai-wcag on 2003-09-03
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:04:32 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:04:49 [bcaldwell]
- bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:04:56 [Zakim]
- +Wendy
- 14:05:09 [Zakim]
- + +1.703.225.aabb
- 14:05:30 [wendy]
- zakim, +1.703.225.aabb is Shailesh
- 14:05:30 [Zakim]
- +Shailesh; got it
- 14:05:33 [Zakim]
- +??P18
- 14:05:41 [rscano]
- zakim, ??P18 is Ben
- 14:05:41 [Zakim]
- +Ben; got it
- 14:05:43 [wendy]
- zakim, ??P18 is Ben
- 14:05:43 [Zakim]
- sorry, wendy, I do not recognize a party named '??P18'
- 14:05:51 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 14:05:51 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Shailesh, Ben
- 14:06:42 [Zakim]
- + +1.416.946.aacc
- 14:06:52 [rscano]
- zakim, +1.416.946.aacc is Chris
- 14:06:52 [Zakim]
- +Chris; got it
- 14:06:58 [wendy]
- zakim, Shailesh is Sailesh_Panchang
- 14:06:58 [Zakim]
- +Sailesh_Panchang; got it
- 14:07:07 [rscano]
- agenda?
- 14:07:25 [wendy]
- agenda+ server-side techniques
- 14:07:58 [wendy]
- agenda+ gateway techniques http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-GATEWAY-20030723.html
- 14:12:01 [wendy]
- lisa's rdf techniques: http://www.ubaccess.com/rdf.html
- 14:12:26 [wendy]
- wac summarizes lisa's and charles's directions
- 14:13:17 [wendy]
- geoff raised points about server-side being http header, apache-specific configurations...server configuration techniques rather than server-side scripting
- 14:14:50 [wendy]
- perhaps server techniques and metadata techniques
- 14:15:40 [wendy]
- action: wac write to lisa and geoff about directions
- 14:19:24 [wendy]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 14:19:24 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "server-side techniques" taken up [from wendy]
- 14:19:32 [wendy]
- close this agendum
- 14:19:40 [wendy]
- take up agendum 2
- 14:20:01 [wendy]
- lots of things to go through.
- 14:20:30 [wendy]
- - many checkpoints don't have any info
- 14:20:32 [wendy]
- - editorial notes
- 14:20:40 [wendy]
- - how to link to technology-specifics
- 14:20:47 [wendy]
- - general organization
- 14:21:11 [sh1mmer]
- sh1mmer has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:21:23 [rscano]
- hi Tom
- 14:21:26 [sh1mmer]
- Hi :)
- 14:21:37 [sh1mmer]
- Am I late, I thought the meeting was at 4
- 14:21:47 [rscano]
- yep... did u come in teleconference?
- 14:21:58 [sh1mmer]
- I will now.
- 14:22:48 [Zakim]
- + +44.191.514.aadd
- 14:23:04 [wendy]
- there are some techniques in the html techniques that we'd like to move here. also moving best practices and additional notes (as mock-up)
- 14:23:14 [wendy]
- zakim, +44.191.514.aadd is Tom_Croucher
- 14:23:14 [Zakim]
- +Tom_Croucher; got it
- 14:23:20 [wendy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 14:23:20 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Sailesh_Panchang, Ben, Chris, Tom_Croucher
- 14:23:30 [wendy]
- zakim, Ben is Ben_Caldwell
- 14:23:30 [Zakim]
- +Ben_Caldwell; got it
- 14:23:37 [wendy]
- zakim, Chris is Chris_Ridpath
- 14:23:37 [Zakim]
- +Chris_Ridpath; got it
- 14:24:32 [Zakim]
- +Dave_MacDonald
- 14:26:34 [wendy]
- what mechanisms provide to help people find their way?
- 14:26:36 [wendy]
- an index
- 14:27:49 [wendy]
- concern about length for each checkpoint.
- 14:28:18 [wendy]
- big long list? organization by checkpoint makes sense, but could get long.
- 14:28:33 [wendy]
- wouldn't help to sort by elements or other categories.
- 14:29:33 [wendy]
- success criteria as another grouping. helpful if have handles for each criterion to use as the heading.
- 14:33:30 [wendy]
- guidelines link to techniques?
- 14:34:48 [wendy]
- UAAG model - in guidelines after each checkpoint, link to techniques.
- 14:34:58 [wendy]
- documents look so similar hard to tell if in techniques or guidelines.
- 14:35:19 [wendy]
- same model as WCAG 1.0 and have heard more than once that people did not notice the links to techniques.
- 14:36:31 [wendy]
- WCAG 1.0 currently has a "gateway techniques".
- 14:36:35 [wendy]
- e.g., here's for 1.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#tech-text-equivalent
- 14:36:52 [wendy]
- that links to the technology specifics
- 14:40:08 [wendy]
- discussion about how to move through, to link to techniques
- 14:40:24 [wendy]
- summary: each checkpoint would have link to gateway techinque that mirrors it.
- 14:41:50 [wendy]
- each gateway technique then links to technology-specific
- 14:42:43 [wendy]
- links from checkpoint to gateway are not at every success criterion, at checkpoint, but then gateway divided by success criteria.
- 14:43:09 [wendy]
- put everything in a database and serve a variety of views.
- 14:43:48 [rscano]
- yes... I think that we need to define some keywords(referring to the guidelines and techs) for let people to browse gateway by keywords
- 14:44:55 [wendy]
- that's the way we've set it up - using XML.
- 14:45:28 [wendy]
- need to check into w3c process and what are the limitations with providing diff views of a Recommendation. i.e., likely to have less flexibility with normative info than informative
- 14:48:28 [wendy]
- what if interested only in html techniques?
- 14:48:51 [wendy]
- do technology-specifics reference back to gateway?
- 14:49:35 [wendy]
- hypothetical: in html if say "use css tech instead" link to gateway or to css techs?
- 14:51:22 [wendy]
- gateway: at top link to other tech-specifics
- 14:51:51 [wendy]
- in tech-specific: in status/intro "this is part of a suite of techhniques..." clear that it is not the only one and that doesn't "stand on it's own"
- 14:52:24 [wendy]
- link back to gateway for every technique?
- 14:54:02 [wendy]
- e.g., tips to describe alt-text. html will describe how to use alt, but reference gateway for specifics on writing the contents of alt.
- 14:56:45 [wendy]
- audience - workflow. who are they? how are they using this? personas? use cases?
- 14:57:21 [wendy]
- some of that listed in Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Checklists and Techniques http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-tech-req/
- 15:00:42 [wendy]
- ask IG about use cases.
- 15:01:53 [wendy]
- need to document assumptions
- 15:02:04 [wendy]
- 1. write down all of the use cases you can think of
- 15:02:09 [wendy]
- 2. someone post a query to IG for similar info
- 15:03:04 [wendy]
- action: michael ask IG about use cases for techniques
- 15:03:08 [wendy]
- when to discuss?
- 15:03:34 [wendy]
- f2f? part of gateway techniques discussion?
- 15:06:32 [wendy]
- Tuesday 1:30-4:30 pm EDT discussion of Gateways
- 15:07:01 [wendy]
- 1:30 - 3:00 - use case discussions. following, turn to other issues in Gateway Techniques
- 15:07:10 [wendy]
- agenda for next week: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2003/09/f2f-agenda.html#Agenda
- 15:07:52 [rscano]
- i've problems with audio
- 15:07:53 [rscano]
- :(
- 15:10:12 [wendy]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag20.html#techs
- 15:11:30 [joeclark]
- joeclark has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:11:55 [wendy]
- hey joe
- 15:12:27 [rscano]
- hi joe
- 15:12:39 [wendy]
- action: michael introduce use case thread
- 15:13:12 [wendy]
- collect these as part of discussion for next tuesday
- 15:17:15 [wendy]
- NFB excerpts: distill it?
- 15:17:30 [wendy]
- point out specifics rather than link to.
- 15:18:45 [wendy]
- gateway not formatted ala html techniques, but could be. i.e., technique/(checklist-item | examples | refs)
- 15:18:56 [wendy]
- distill highlights of NFB into a few techniques
- 15:19:07 [wendy]
- link to lots of refs
- 15:20:00 [wendy]
- how decide which refs to link to? lots of info out there.
- 15:20:43 [wendy]
- cocern about favoritism or endorsement if link to one or not another.
- 15:21:17 [wendy]
- s/NFB/NBA
- 15:22:33 [wendy]
- auxiliary references? other sources of good info. where do we stop? what about other languages?
- 15:26:59 [wendy]
- http://www.w3.org/2000/08/nba-manual/Overview.html
- 15:30:35 [wendy]
- w3c translations: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Translation/
- 15:35:04 [wendy]
- wcag 1.0 guidelines/checkpoints translated into several langs. techniques: french and japanese
- 15:42:24 [wendy]
- EOWG coordination issue
- 15:43:19 [rscano]
- we have an IWA/HWG member inside EOWG
- 15:44:26 [wendy]
- EOWG working on review of WCAG 2.0. likely to talk w/them about their comments. add to agenda discussion of translations and support materials.
- 15:44:52 [wendy]
- action: wac msg to chairs to discuss scheduling joing mtg w/EOWG
- 15:48:08 [wendy]
- action: michael ask richard about what are the impacts on localization of our documents of linking to external resources in a particular lang that we don't have control over.
- 15:55:51 [wendy]
- in techniques, a way to encourage people to do more than the minimum?
- 15:56:23 [wendy]
- emphasize that once done minimum, going further sometimes isn't that much more effort.
- 15:57:02 [wendy]
- cross-referencing between techniques might help?
- 15:57:45 [wendy]
- (brainstorming about how to help get this across and if it is a good idea)
- 15:58:24 [rscano]
- explain what is the risk for the accessibility of a page if they don't respect other checkpoint? Eg: if you don't respect this checkpoint bla bla bla...
- 15:59:14 [wendy]
- use cases: will have people approaching reluctantly others enthusiastically.
- 15:59:43 [rscano]
- made like www.diveintoaccessibility.org ?
- 15:59:51 [wendy]
- consider this in design of gateway and how to accomodate both needs as well as wanting to encourage people to "do more" w/out giving them too much info that it discourages them.
- 15:59:54 [wendy]
- actions?
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- sees 5 open action items:
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wac write to lisa and geoff about directions [1]
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T14-15-40
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: michael ask IG about use cases for techniques [2]
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-03-04
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: michael introduce use case thread [3]
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-12-39
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wac msg to chairs to discuss scheduling joing mtg w/EOWG [4]
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-44-52
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: michael ask richard about what are the impacts on localization of our documents of linking to external resources in a particular lang that we don't have control over. [5]
- 15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-48-08
- 16:00:32 [wendy]
- action: everyone write use cases for techniques for next week's discussion
- 16:00:57 [rscano]
- ok
- 16:01:07 [wendy]
- no meeting next wednesday since f2f next monday/tuesday
- 16:01:22 [wendy]
- next telecon is 17 sept
- 16:01:51 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 16:01:54 [wendy]
- zakim, bye
- 16:01:54 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wai-wcag
- 16:02:00 [wendy]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- I see 6 open action items:
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wac write to lisa and geoff about directions [1]
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T14-15-40
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: michael ask IG about use cases for techniques [2]
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-03-04
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: michael introduce use case thread [3]
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-12-39
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wac msg to chairs to discuss scheduling joing mtg w/EOWG [4]
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-44-52
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: michael ask richard about what are the impacts on localization of our documents of linking to external resources in a particular lang that we don't have control over. [5]
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-48-08
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: everyone write use cases for techniques for next week's discussion [6]
- 16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T16-00-32